Very interesting material. Miyahira has done extensive empirical research for quite some time on some of the best ball strikers that are active today.
He seems to be on a sort of Homer Kelley mission too. And lots of precise information in there. Anyway, he has started to connect the dots and it is getting even more interesting. The framework he uses to connect the dots is called "Spine Engine Theory". Plenty of Zone 1 material in there.
This is by far the most extensive description of how the pivot works that I've ever seen. The hula-hula is there, but he goes far beyond that.
You will have to send a mail to Miyahira to get the filet mignon. I actually disclosed a blind spot in my own stroke by just reading that paper.
Very interesting material. Miyahira has done extensive empirical research for quite some time on some of the best ball strikers that are active today.
He seems to be on a sort of Homer Kelley mission too. And lots of precise information in there. Anyway, he has started to connect the dots and it is getting even more interesting. The framework he uses to connect the dots is called "Spine Engine Theory". Plenty of Zone 1 material in there.
This is by far the most extensive description of how the pivot works that I've ever seen. The hula-hula is there, but he goes far beyond that.
You will have to send a mail to Miyahira to get the filet mignon. I actually disclosed a blind spot in my own stroke by just reading that paper.
Interesting stuff . . . . . I need to read closer . . . . however I think Homer was definitely ahead of his time in this regard . . . . . thanks for sharing . . . . could you send me the paper? Would love to read.
I see exactly what Kelvin Miyahira sees. But does he see the Power Package and "Pivot Train".
I'm not criticizing him, in fact I agree with him. Mcllroy is an Elbow Plane Swinger using a Sweep Release. This means that he pulls his arms down from the Top of the Swing. I think that this engages his Torso (Spine Engine) to Power the Swing. His Hips lead but don't Power the Shoulder Turn. There are degrees of Hip Action.
If we want to Take the undisturbed Power Package into Release, then the Hips need to Pivot Power the Shoulders.
Does this make sense? Whatever is Releasing, needs the preceding Component to become the Pivot Power Source or Pivot Backstop. Components preceding the Power Source of the Pivot serve motion and stabilization.
Not all Golfers Swing this way. Kelvin needs more than one theory to explain the source of Pivot Power in the Golf Swing. Or, he can read TGM.
I see exactly what Kelvin Miyahira sees. But does he see the Power Package and "Pivot Train".
He sees a spine engine. He has a different pairs of glasses on his nose than you, Daryl. Therefore, he also looks at components never mentioned in TGM.
If you want to start a meta discussion over it you need to step outside the TGM framework and study the alternatives on their own premises. As long as you keep your TGM glasses on, the differences will seem irrelevant and the similarities will seem similar.
If TGM explained all there was to say about golf ball striking it would be the first time in the history of knowledge that anyone did provide a complete, knowledge based answer on anything anywhere on a subject with some complexity.
Quote:
I'm not criticizing him, in fact I agree with him. Mcllroy is an Elbow Plane Swinger using a Sweep Release. This means that he pulls his arms down from the Top of the Swing. I think that this engages his Torso (Spine Engine) to Power the Swing. His Hips lead but don't Power the Shoulder Turn.
To a large extent, according to Kelvin and the framework he uses, the hips works pretty much the same way as a good runner's hips, with hips moving forward over the foot that is pushing at any moment. It is difficult for me anyway to judge whether his hips are powering the swing or not. Are the hips powering the shoulders when you run? The shoulders and hips moves in opposite directions in a runner. I'm not saying that this is how it should be done in golf, but most people seem to agree that McIlroy has a great stroke pattern. Maybe you can do either.
Anyway, in the spine engine, the lower half of the spine supports the foot work while theh upper half supports the shoulder work. The spine keeps everything in balance. The spine engine theory provides a different framework for understanding the relationshop between the upper body and the lower body than TGM. I've read all the hip actions, knee actions and foot actions in TGM several times and I haven't learned a lot from it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Spine Engine theory has all the answers either. But it has one thing going for it, ant that it that it has been developed based on human motion studies.
But this wasn't the reason I chose the thread title. It was because Kelvin takes a close look at components in the upper body hardly mentioned in TGM. Where in TGM do you find lumbar lordosis and scapular dig for instance? As far as I can see, the spine is stiff as a pole in TGM.
By the way, there are also similarities: The upper body controls the hips and not the other way around in both frameworks.
Quote:
If we want to Take the undisturbed Power Package into Release, then the Hips need to Pivot Power the Shoulders.
When you walk or run, the shoulder moves forward when the foot moves back. The hips and the spine keeps it all together. It's a balancing act. I've been watching Padraig Harrington do the Happy Gilmore thing. It's amazing how much shoulder turn and how much Acc # 4 he has saved for impact when his feet isn't posted on the ground. It is not a given that we need to post anything into the ground to power the stroke. A jump seems to do it better if power is all we're after. I find that interesting.
Quote:
Does this make sense? Whatever is Releasing, needs the preceding Component to become the Pivot Power Source or Pivot Backstop. Components preceding the Power Source of the Pivot serve motion and stabilization.
The big parts pulling and the small parts approach is very basic and very general and very old and very simplified knowledge and I see nothing new in TGM there - not even if I turn the clock back to the time the book was new. This is something you will find in any sports literature dealing with basic motion patterns. I learned this about 15 years before I picked up a golf club. From a teacher who trained discus throw and pole vault at national teams level. It wasn't new then either.
Quote:
Not all Golfers Swing this way. Kelvin needs more than one theory to explain the source of Pivot Power in the Golf Swing. Or, he can read TGM.
Kelvin uses a "spine engine theory" as a metaphore. There's nothing preventing anyone to asess any stroke through this framework, pretty much as you do with TGM. It has limitations because it is very different to power a golf shot than to transport your body around. But I still think the spine engine is a very interesting methaphor, and it is very different from the even more-so mechanical metaphore underlying TGM. And I also think it is interesting that Kelvin shows us some world class ball strikers and try to understand why they are as good as they ar - when most of them have patterns that are totally unimpressive per TGM.
Kelvin has focused on a few golfers that has certain similarities. Pretty much in the same way as TGM people tend to focus on Brian Gay and other good players with certain charactheristics that fits the stock TGM pattern.
I think TGM is a great book, but I don't think it has a good coverage of the pivot.
I've read TGM hundreds of times. I may see seemingly small things in the book that others miss. I haven't found anything yet that can't be pointed out in the book. I'm not saying the book is perfect, but it is complete. But I think it's a personal problem for me, when people criticize the book for what they think is missing rather than enjoying the Book for what's included and what it represents.
His Spine Engine Theory is a "Sweep Release" without "Hip Action". It's been done. Nothing new here.
I've enjoyed reading his "Revisiting the Kinetic Link Principle" and Multiple Firing Theory many times. I'm always looking for something new.
The fact that we have multiple pivot theories doesn't deny the fact that we all have the same body parts and Swing Components. We just use the components in different ways or omit them or turn some on and off (Zero them out or Maximize them). Any Pivot is legitimate if it allows or helps to create and Sustain the Line of Compression by allowing the Arms and Hands to perform their functions.
I know of dozens of Pivot procedures as does Kelvin. I just saying that focusing on one and demoting others isn't necessary. When anyone focuses on "THE Theory", then it's time to chant the TGM Mantra: "there is only one Swing Geometry, but the procedures and combination's are endless". (I made that up).....
According to the spine engine theory, the hip has a gear function. A function that translates a linear motion of the feet to a rotary motion of the upper body. In my book that is hip action. In McIlroy's case it seems to be more sequeced than in most other strokes though.
Linear Mode
