level right wrist - on plane forearm

[golfbulldog]

I hope I am not confusing myself but if one sets up with :-

Bent left wrist / Flat level right wrist / midbody hands / right forearm NOT on plane
is it possible to get to impact with :-

flat left wrist / level right wrist and right forearm ON plane??

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[tongzilla]

Yes it is possible. That's what most pros do -- classic address on the Hands Only Plane and return to Impact with a Flat Left Wrist and Right Forearm On Plane.

[golfbulldog]

Yes it is possible. That's what most pros do -- classic address on the Hands Only Plane and return to Impact with a Flat Left Wrist and Right Forearm On Plane.

BUT surely the wrist can't be level (at least the same exact degree of level) in both positions. I think that you are saying that the right elbow bends more at impact than address, due to secondary axis tilt and right shoulder moving downplane - this I agree -

BUT if the ball position is fixed and you keep the exact degree of level right wrist and merely lower right shoulder and increase right elbow bend then is only 1 possibility :-

- Shaft plane flattens and clubhead moves away from ball position

BUT if you maintain shaft plane, clubhead-ball position and lower right shoulder and bend right elbow ( such that it then goes to on plane) THEN the right wrist must bend ( become more uncocked than level )

I am not trying to awkward - I love the simplicity of "keep right wrist level / no cocking and bend right elbow to cock left wrist" so simple but I just can't see the mechanics.

I have been through the archives and found this post by Yoda and I always thought I was achieving this:


09-28-2005, 03:52 AM

Yoda
Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 3,054

The On Plane Right Forearm
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
How many professional golfers set up with the right forearm on plane?

The truly On Plane Right Forearm demands a Body at or near Impact Fix. That condition results in the Hip Slide (Weight Shift) that tilts the Shoulder Turn Axis (the spine) and thus lowers the Right Shoulder. This results in a greater Bend in the Right Elbow than when the Right Shoulder is higher in its non-Impact condition.

Hence, most great players -- especially Swingers in their Standard Adjusted Address -- have a Right Forearm slightly higher at Address than at Impact.
__________________
Yoda

BUT now I have been thinking about it the right wrist must change its degree of "level" if the shaft plane and clubhead-ball alignments stay the same.

[Mike O]

BUT surely the wrist can't be level (at least the same exact degree of level) in both positions. I think that you are saying that the right elbow bends more at impact than address, due to secondary axis tilt and right shoulder moving downplane - this I agree -

BUT if the ball position is fixed and you keep the exact degree of level right wrist and merely lower right shoulder and increase right elbow bend then is only 1 possibility :-

- Shaft plane flattens and clubhead moves away from ball position

BUT if you maintain shaft plane, clubhead-ball position and lower right shoulder and bend right elbow ( such that it then goes to on plane) THEN the right wrist must bend ( become more uncocked than level )

I am not trying to awkward - I love the simplicity of "keep right wrist level / no cocking and bend right elbow to cock left wrist" so simple but I just can't see the mechanics.

I have been through the archives and found this post by Yoda and I always thought I was achieving this:


09-28-2005, 03:52 AM

Yoda
Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 3,054

The On Plane Right Forearm
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martee
How many professional golfers set up with the right forearm on plane?

The truly On Plane Right Forearm demands a Body at or near Impact Fix. That condition results in the Hip Slide (Weight Shift) that tilts the Shoulder Turn Axis (the spine) and thus lowers the Right Shoulder. This results in a greater Bend in the Right Elbow than when the Right Shoulder is higher in its non-Impact condition.

Hence, most great players -- especially Swingers in their Standard Adjusted Address -- have a Right Forearm slightly higher at Address than at Impact.
__________________
Yoda

BUT now I have been thinking about it the right wrist must change its degree of "level" if the shaft plane and clubhead-ball alignments stay the same.

Let's see if we're in agreement and I'm understanding you. If you set up at impact fix- with the right wrist level and the right forearm on plane. Then you go back to adjusted address and the right elbow comes up and off the plane- then everything else being the same- the right wrist is now in a cocked position. Correct?

[golfbulldog]

My understanding of ideal impact is:-

Left wrist = flat and level
Right wrist = bent and level
Right forearm = on plane with clubshaft

As you state, this position can be adopted at "impact fix".

As a swinger, i then move to "adjusted address" with mid-body hands (a recommended choice for swinging). As Yoda's post suggests this is usually accomplished with right forearm just above shaft plane. The wrist must bend away from its level position if clubhead-ball alignment is static.

Maybe if your right forearm is not on planes at adjusted address then the right wrist can not be level IF you want it to be on-plane right forearm and level wrist at impact??

This has only been a problem for me when I tried to join up a number of pieces of advice received from the forum which suggested :-
- level right wrist at Address. (i presumed adjusted address but maybe it meant impact fix address?)

and

- the fact that most people start with off plane right forearm at adjusted address. ( Yoda quote)


Probably no clearer....

[Mike O]

1) Still looking for an answer to my previous post?

2) Regarding your comment "The wrist must bend away from its level position if clubhead-ball alignment is static."

1st: Are you referring to the left wrist or right wrist?
2nd: Bending wouldn't really be used in the context of "level"- you would either be "level" or moving away from level would be cocking or uncocking i.e. an uncocked wrist or a cocked wrist. Please clarify what your referring to in #2 above.

Thanks,
Mike O

[neil]

If you set up with right wrist flat and level,left wrist bent and level,then surely it is simple to get left wrist flat and level ,right wrist bent and level?

[golfbulldog]

1) Still looking for an answer to my previous post?

2) Regarding your comment "The wrist must bend away from its level position if clubhead-ball alignment is static."

1st: Are you referring to the left wrist or right wrist?
2nd: Bending wouldn't really be used in the context of "level"- you would either be "level" or moving away from level would be cocking or uncocking i.e. an uncocked wrist or a cocked wrist. Please clarify what your referring to in #2 above.

Thanks,
Mike O

1 . Referring to right wrist

2. Apologise for using "bend" inappropriately but I did ad in brackets "( become more uncocked than level )"

I should have said" the right wrist has to change to a more uncocked position..."

Thanks for your thoughts MikeO

[golfbulldog]

If you set up with right wrist flat and level,left wrist bent and level,then surely it is simple to get left wrist flat and level ,right wrist bent and level?

My problem is not with the wrist alignments in isolation - it is in the context of the right forearm being slightly off plane at adjusted address( as per Yoda quote) AND then trying to get on plane at impact... the right wrist can't be level in both states ( ie . adjusted address and impact)

If it is not level at adjusted address then it seems to spoil the beauty of right forearm control of swing which , in my understanding, should merely bend at right wrist and bend at elbow to cock left wrist - all the time tracing plane line.

If not level at adjusted address then an additional small cocking movement is needed in takeaway as well as bend right wrist.
Or so it seems to me...