There seem to be two major schools of thought in learning golf.
#1 Sequential... Leadbetter's Links, TGM's Chapter 12-5, The Eight Step Swing, etc..
#2 Dynamic... The motion is not broken so much into segments, but is taught as a whole... Gravity Golf, AJ(Secret Revealed), DeLaTorre's teaching, I think is mostly as a whole swing concept, etc..
Payne Stewart would not think of positions, I am told. Couples, and I think Nicklaus are similar also.
Tiger and many others do use positions, or stages.
Do you think some people are better suited to one or the other, due to their learning style? Can TGM be taught as a dynamic whole from the start... with much success?
There seem to be two major schools of thought in learning golf.
#1 Sequential... Leadbetter's Links, TGM's Chapter 12-5, The Eight Step Swing, etc..
#2 Dynamic... The motion is not broken so much into segments, but is taught as a whole... Gravity Golf, AJ(Secret Revealed), DeLaTorre's teaching, I think is mostly as a whole swing concept, etc..
Payne Stewart would not think of positions, I am told. Couples, and I think Nicklaus are similar also.
Tiger and many others do use positions, or stages.
Do you think some people are better suited to one or the other, due to their learning style? Can TGM be taught as a dynamic whole from the start... with much success?
There are no positions in TGM. Homer refers to geometry, when you read the prefix, as motion. Not fixed lines but MOTION.
The book as a guide has to make references the three zones and the 24 components. No other way to write a book but .... TGM is not a method to teach. AIs make decisions on teaching.
The geometry is motion, fixed positions could never work except one: hold the finish and smile.
For some time I have argued with myself regarding this statement, TGM is a catalog, not a method or style. It has been said many times in defense of the book, etc.
Granted the book first 11 chapters are in fact a catalog, a description, etc. but none really meat the definition of a style or method.
Now Chapter 12 provides two stroke patterns (Hitting/12-1 and Swinging/12-2) which define a golf stroke style. Take 12-5-3, the method defined, how to teach either of those patterns.
In addition, throughout chapters 2 - 10 there are a number of drills and exercises to support Chapter 12.
TGM would in fact meet the standard definition of method and style regarding the golf stroke.
The application of the method and style is the bare bones, it does need the flesh and approach added to make it a polished product as well as personalized to both the instructor and student learning style and method of instruction.
A lot of golfers often have trouble understanding the difference between 'position' and 'alignment'. Explain the bent right wrist or flat left wrist, they see that as a position. The understanding of alignments often lack relationships and appear to be positions.
How it is actually taught and learned, Tom Stickney wrote an article a while back regarding the kinds of teachers and to more less the extent how golfers learn.
For some time I have argued with myself regarding this statement, TGM is a catalog, not a method or style. It has been said many times in defense of the book, etc.
Granted the book first 11 chapters are in fact a catalog, a description, etc. but none really meat the definition of a style or method.
Now Chapter 12 provides two stroke patterns (Hitting/12-1 and Swinging/12-2) which define a golf stroke style. Take 12-5-3, the method defined, how to teach either of those patterns.
In addition, throughout chapters 2 - 10 there are a number of drills and exercises to support Chapter 12.
TGM would in fact meet the standard definition of method and style regarding the golf stroke.
The application of the method and style is the bare bones, it does need the flesh and approach added to make it a polished product as well as personalized to both the instructor and student learning style and method of instruction.
A lot of golfers often have trouble understanding the difference between 'position' and 'alignment'. Explain the bent right wrist or flat left wrist, they see that as a position. The understanding of alignments often lack relationships and appear to be positions.
How it is actually taught and learned, Tom Stickney wrote an article a while back regarding the kinds of teachers and to more less the extent how golfers learn.
I totally agree Martee.
I have always said that TGM is more than a catalog. Many claim the book is just a reference catalog. I think people who only see a catalog have narrow insight to the book. It is both a catalog and a system. Homer included two classics strokes- 12-1-1 and 12-2-0. Study TGM with Yoda and try to say you just learned the catalog portion of the book.
and...
Alignment golf sets the stroke in motion. The problem with (fixed) position golf is that it lacks the connection of the dots. There is so much between each position. It is like presenting a Broadway play using every third line of the script.
For some time I have argued with myself regarding this statement, TGM is a catalog, not a method or style. It has been said many times in defense of the book, etc.
Granted the book first 11 chapters are in fact a catalog, a description, etc. but none really meat the definition of a style or method.
Now Chapter 12 provides two stroke patterns (Hitting/12-1 and Swinging/12-2) which define a golf stroke style. Take 12-5-3, the method defined, how to teach either of those patterns.
In addition, throughout chapters 2 - 10 there are a number of drills and exercises to support Chapter 12.
TGM would in fact meet the standard definition of method and style regarding the golf stroke.
The application of the method and style is the bare bones, it does need the flesh and approach added to make it a polished product as well as personalized to both the instructor and student learning style and method of instruction.
A lot of golfers often have trouble understanding the difference between 'position' and 'alignment'. Explain the bent right wrist or flat left wrist, they see that as a position. The understanding of alignments often lack relationships and appear to be positions.
How it is actually taught and learned, Tom Stickney wrote an article a while back regarding the kinds of teachers and to more less the extent how golfers learn.
I totally agree Martee.
I have always said that TGM is more than a catalog. Many claim the book is just a reference catalog. I think people who only see a catalog have narrow insight to the book. It is both a catalog and a system. Homer included two classics strokes- 12-1-1 and 12-2-0. Study TGM with Yoda and try to say you just learned the catalog portion of the book.
and...
Alignment golf sets the stroke in motion. The problem with (fixed) position golf is that it lacks the connection of the dots. There is so much between each position. It is like presenting a Broadway play using every third line of the script.
What about the learning styles? I think that the reason many are afraid of TGM is because in their mind it is something that is learned in segments, positions, alignments, or whatever term one might choose to call them. Some people simply want to think of their swing as an entire motion at all times. They are probably the so called non-mechanical, "FEEL" players.
Now... many things are usually learned in segments. Typing, dancing, musical instruments, etc.. Among these, there are those rare people that teach themselves to type, can dance from observation and mimicking, and can play musical instruments by ear(they don't even read music).
How would you handle this type of person if they wanted a little TGMizing?
I think stickney article in the frist four type of instructors provides how each teaching style would need to be handled.
Quote:
The Analytical Teacher
The analytical teacher uses technology as well as computers within their lessons and their desire is to help the student understand his or her own motion, as well as becoming a student of the game.
Planes, pivot, impact alignments, etc., are terms that are familiar to this teacher’s students. These teachers excel with players who need logical and not vague answers to their swing questions.
Usually, analytical teachers are best for intermediate to advanced players as they tend to move to quickly through the basics. Remember that the teacher’s job is to inform and explain the what’s and why’s of your swing, not to impress you with what they know.
The Feel Teacher
The feel teacher speaks of sensations and reactions of biomechanical motions that produce effective swinging motions. They tend to focus on the effects of swing flaws, but not always. They are great for the player who is sensation-oriented. Vague explanations are the complaint from most of their students when the instructor says, “Just feel this…”
Feel teachers can only tell you what they have felt personally or what they have been told is felt while working on certain motions. They don’t have all the answers, but they can get you started on the right track to feeling what it is that you need to do in order to improve.
The Psychological Teacher
Take a pill but don’t take the whole bottle, Harvey Penick said. He was a psychological teacher to the core. These teachers tend to focus on introspective techniques, allowing students to figure out what needs to be done.
These teachers tend to be “old-school” players of the game. Sadly, we have all but lost this type of teaching style today thanks in large part to the advances in video and computers. Books by Tim Galloway, Bob Rotella, Richard Coop, etc., all have ideas as to improving your current game by just using your mind more effectively.
The Model Swing Teacher
This type of teacher is good for about 50 percent of their clientele but terrible for the other half. When you try and fit everyone into the same mold, it works great for some people, while others just can’t do it to save their life just because they simply can’t swing that way.
However, if you go to a model teacher and you do swing like that model innately, then you are in the right place. For the player who likes and agrees with the model taught and who has the physiology to do so, there is no better teacher in the world.
People who agree with position-based instruction should go to this teacher from day one.
I know that the following wont be popular or agreed with but I do think Mr. Kelly had it right. You need an AI. In fact if you want to argue that Mr Kelly was 100% right or 100% wrong in total regarding the book, this is a section area where I believe that he was wrong. He contradicts himself by saying that this is for all golfers, but yet to be successful he does state clearly that you should use an AI. It is the AI's job to be able translate so he can communicate in the best means for the student to get the information, be it terms, drills, etc. And each student may and will probably be different to degree, just as each golf stroke. At a minimum I beleive that Mr. Kelly caused a confusion factor in how some believe that the average joe golfer can build a golf stroke by him/herself, I strongly support the need for an AI guidance.
I think stickney article in the frist four type of instructors provides how each teaching style would need to be handled.
Quote:
The Analytical Teacher
The analytical teacher uses technology as well as computers within their lessons and their desire is to help the student understand his or her own motion, as well as becoming a student of the game.
Planes, pivot, impact alignments, etc., are terms that are familiar to this teacher’s students. These teachers excel with players who need logical and not vague answers to their swing questions.
Usually, analytical teachers are best for intermediate to advanced players as they tend to move to quickly through the basics. Remember that the teacher’s job is to inform and explain the what’s and why’s of your swing, not to impress you with what they know.
The Feel Teacher
The feel teacher speaks of sensations and reactions of biomechanical motions that produce effective swinging motions. They tend to focus on the effects of swing flaws, but not always. They are great for the player who is sensation-oriented. Vague explanations are the complaint from most of their students when the instructor says, “Just feel this…”
Feel teachers can only tell you what they have felt personally or what they have been told is felt while working on certain motions. They don’t have all the answers, but they can get you started on the right track to feeling what it is that you need to do in order to improve.
The Psychological Teacher
Take a pill but don’t take the whole bottle, Harvey Penick said. He was a psychological teacher to the core. These teachers tend to focus on introspective techniques, allowing students to figure out what needs to be done.
These teachers tend to be “old-school” players of the game. Sadly, we have all but lost this type of teaching style today thanks in large part to the advances in video and computers. Books by Tim Galloway, Bob Rotella, Richard Coop, etc., all have ideas as to improving your current game by just using your mind more effectively.
The Model Swing Teacher
This type of teacher is good for about 50 percent of their clientele but terrible for the other half. When you try and fit everyone into the same mold, it works great for some people, while others just can’t do it to save their life just because they simply can’t swing that way.
However, if you go to a model teacher and you do swing like that model innately, then you are in the right place. For the player who likes and agrees with the model taught and who has the physiology to do so, there is no better teacher in the world.
People who agree with position-based instruction should go to this teacher from day one.
I know that the following wont be popular or agreed with but I do think Mr. Kelly had it right. You need an AI. In fact if you want to argue that Mr Kelly was 100% right or 100% wrong in total regarding the book, this is a section area where I believe that he was wrong. He contradicts himself by saying that this is for all golfers, but yet to be successful he does state clearly that you should use an AI. It is the AI's job to be able translate so he can communicate in the best means for the student to get the information, be it terms, drills, etc. And each student may and will probably be different to degree, just as each golf stroke. At a minimum I beleive that Mr. Kelly caused a confusion factor in how some believe that the average joe golfer can build a golf stroke by him/herself, I strongly support the need for an AI guidance.
I agree that not many probably can get much from the book without seeing an A.I..
As far as teaching styles... there probably are not many Harvey Penick types left, I agree. He would try to give the student only one task to do during a lesson, if at all possible. The lessons were usually only 15 minutes. He did not use video.
If a teacher can take the TGM concepts, and incorporate them in such a way as to satisfy different learning styles... he should be successful.
If an "artist" goes to see a pure "mechanic", for example, he may have problems, and vice versa.
Teach, learn, practice, fix, do, study "cause", not "effect".
The Analytical Teacher, The Feel Teacher & The Model Swing Teacher are "effect" teachers.
The Psychological Teacher and The "Intention" Teacher are "cause" teachers.
The body does what the mind intends to.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
A good or great teacher/coach (assuming they have an understanding and knowlegde of their subject) must be able to help the pupil by using all senses (ie visual,verbal feel)when explaining or better still understand which sences the pupil uses when filtering the information. If they can't do this they will struggle to have any sort of success rate, they will only be good with those who filter information using the sences the teacher or coach uses.
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