I was confused, but not anymore. Sorry for making it confusing.

Question:

If the wrist cock motion keeps the clubshaft and left arm on the same flat plane, and, the left arm is not on the inclined plane, then how does the clubshaft stay on the inclined plane when cocking?

Answer: It doesn't.

PS. if I said that the Left Arm Flying Wedge was the Plane Line then it was a misprint.

Daryl,the hands and clubface define the plane.The left entire left arm, clubshaft and the back of the left hand are always positioned against the same flat plane -NOT IMO "THE "PLANE ,but "their" own flat plane.Because of the space between the left shoulder and the centre of the pivot ,rotation moves the left shoulder off plane-but Homer never referred to the plane (well only briefly)in terms of the left shoulder.I think I understand what you are getting at -the hands and clubshaft cannot be on plane if the left arm flying wedge is not on plane.Hmmmmm-Ithink they can ......GO FOR IT MATE:occasion:

G'day Mate.

Here it goes. I think I found the answers. Get your dowels out.

Query:

If the wrist cock motion keeps the Clubshaft and left arm on the same flat plane, the plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge, and, if the left arm is not on the inclined plane, then how does the Clubshaft stay on the inclined plane when cocking?

Statements:

I know, only by reading HK, that the left arm and Clubshaft must be on the same plane; the Plane of the Left Wrist Cock. Otherwise you destroy the Left Arm Flying Wedge.
6 -B-3-O-1. "…the entire Left Arm, the Clubshaft and the back of the Left Hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane - the plane of the Left Wristcock motion.”

The above statement seems to conflict with the following statement:

HK said that: 2-F. “Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the baseline of the Inclined Plane..” “Otherwise, the end of the club that is closest to the ground must be pointing at the base line of the inclined plane – or extension of that line, even if they must be extended to the horizon.”

If you put a club in your left hand and keep the Clubshaft on plane with your left arm, you can’t have it parallel to the baseline of the inclined plane when it is horizontal to the ground nor can you point either end of the Clubshaft at the base line of the inclined plane and have the Clubshaft lying flat against the inclined plane unless you bend your left wrist. Bent Visually or Geometrically.

I always thought that the Clubshaft and hands had to lie flat against the Inclined Plane. Every time we see an inclined plane board such as all of those in the little yellow book and those we’ve constructed ourselves and the Circle Tube Planes that you can purchase from any practice aid web-site has reinforced this generally agreed FACT, that being On Plane Means That The Clubshaft Lies Flat Against, On, or In, the Inclined Plane.

And, to make things worse, 2-N-0. “AS LONG AS THE CLUBSHAFT HOLDS A STRAIGHT LINE ELATIONSHIP TO A STRAIGHT LINE – POINTING AT A STRAIGHT LINE.” Which reaffirms 2-F.

Solution:

In his thread “Left Arm Flying Wedge and Plane” by Tongzilla on 1-14-2006

Tong asked if the left arm flying wedge was parallel to the plane. In post # 26, annikan skywalker almost had the answer but the thread was never finished. No conclusions were agreed on. No solution. But he hinted that Only with a Rotated Shoulder Turn, on a Square Shoulder Plane and when the waist bend is at enough angle so that the shoulders will be on plane while turning, will you have the Left Arm Flying Wedge and Wristcock lie on the same flat Inclined Plane.

What defines the Plane? It passes through the Ball and whatever one of the five reference points you decide to use. Elbow, Turned Shoulder, Squared Shoulder, Turning Shoulder or Hands Only.

What goes up, back and in on plane and down, forward and out on plane?
Hands and their pressure points. Not the Clubshaft if you want to keep your left arm flying wedge.

Your hands and pressure points travel along the inclined plane as PP#3 traces its straight base line helping the Left Arm Flying Wedge to keep the Clubshaft pointing at it. :occasion: (See correction below)

The clubshaft does not need to lie flat on the incline plane (turned shoulder) to be pointing at the baseline of the inclined Turned Shoulder Plane. It has its own relationship with the baseline of the inclined plane (the Left Arm Flying Wedge).

I didn’t know that.

Correction: With flatter (flatter than square shoulder) plane angles the clubshaft will point to a line parallel but outside the base line of the inclined plane.

Added 5/24/2006

More information: The club stays on its own angle during the backstroke and downstroke and the #3 pressure point travels up and down the incline plane raising and lowering the clubshaft.

This is different than what Ben Doyle said in his video, "How to build a G.O.L.F. swing", that the clubshaft changes its angle (gets steeper) during the backswing.
So, the Left Arm Flying Wedge has its own plane (with the Clubshaft). The baseline of this plane moves away (out) from the base line of the inclined plane from Impact Fix to the top (or end) of the backstroke, then moves in toward the base line of the inclined plane during the downstroke.

I believe that the hands and clubshaft can be on the turned shoulder plane even though the left arm is not.So I suppose I am saying that the plane of the left arm flying wedge is not the same as the inclined plane but the hands and clubshaft are on both-they intersect at the hands-the #3PP.:eyes:

Help YODASLUKE!

I agree that both planes intersect at the #3 pressure point. But the Left arm flying wedge requires a flat left wrist so that the clubshaft, wristcock, and left arm lie in the same flat plane.

You agree they intersect which implies two planes.

Oh, I see. Calling in the Big Guns. :toothy: :toothy: :toothy:

No -If I thought there were two planes I would say so .I think they intersect but the hands/clubshaft are subject to the rotation of the shoulders which takes the left arm "off plane"-but it has it's "own plane"which is not the inclined plane of the right forearm.An argument could be made that you would have to bend the left wrist to keep the back of the left hand parallel to the plane-and Homer did not dismiss this so long as you get it flat at impact.If the left wrist stays flat throughout the swing then I would say that it is the #3pp that can stay on the intersection of the "two planes"but that is still the selected plane -back- in -up- down -out- forward.Or for example the turned shoulder plane:think: o.k. where are THE BIG GUNS!:occasion:

Daryl-can't believe I beat you to it!.Another point,I believe the #3accumulator roll is the answer-or at least #3 acc.The right forearm is on plane at address and impact .The left arm retains acc#3.The left arm is never on plane -except when the waist bend is such that the shoulder turn is on plane in both directions(mostly putting).pp#3 is always on plane.:lurk:

It's frustrating. All I want is to hit the ball better. I'm plaqued by the thought that if I know and understand more, I'll get better. It works with everything else. I don't know if anything I wrote earlier is taking me closer or farther from the mechanics involved.

However, there is no doubt in my mind as to the correctness of 6-B-3-0-1. Also I have no doubt in my mind what defines the “Inclined Plane”. And, if 6-B-3-0-1 is true, then the entire Primary Lever would need to lie flat against the inclined plane. That’s my dilemma.

I’m convinced that if we dissect the swings of everyone on this site, we’ll see something a little different. On the other hand, when viewing a swing from down-the-line, the acid test (on this site too) is drawing a straight line from the ball through the right shoulder (at the top of the swing) and examining whether or not the Clubshaft lies flat against it. I understand the validity of this test and I agree with its purpose. I can make the Clubshaft lie flat on the inclined plane and have a flat and cocked left wrist. I just can’t do it while cocking or uncocking the left wrist and comply with 6-B-3-0-1. So, What am I missing?

Where are the big Guns? They’re waiting. Do you see my new Avatar? I’m getting ready for their arrival. LOL. :laughing9 :laughing9 :laughing9