come on dude you know this . . .#4 pressure point . . . shoulder turn . . .

Got it, thrust is directed towards the ball, but not violently so

sort of . . . but what MOVEMENT loads the #4 pressure point?

I would say that shoulder movement against a powerpackage with inertia loads acc 4.

How about discussing the issue of balance in release and hip slide....

I think that if I slide to the target too much (weight going towards target)...then there is a natural reflex to stay in balance... and that means throwing something in the other direction to maintain your sense of balance.... and for many that means throwing the clubhead away from the target...an early release and ...probably off plane as well.... so exaccerbating balance problems...

It always fascinated mem how Hogans targetwards hip slide is combined with his hands moving away from the target... i think that this can be thought of as a balance thing... he might feel the pressure in his feet move to the left foot more than the right...but his sense of Centre of gravity - i think / hypothesise - is fairly central...maybe....

Look at Hogan at End of backswing


Note the position of his pp3 in relation to his right foot. About 2-3 inches target side of right foot instep.

Look at Hogan into his downswing move/transition finished and note his PP3 has moved about 2-3 inxhes away from the target and lies level with right instep...I think that this is balance related.


The photos were not (as far as I know) a single sequence, and so are open to critisism about camera angles etc... so...try it...do your slide and compare an "early release feel" with a "hands away from target feel"... only one of the above allows you to maintain a sense of balance into the downswing IMO...

Longitudinal acceleration...
 

Of course, this move of hands away from target is when Longitudinal pull off the shaft is most obvious...real arrow from quiver stuff... but it also maintains balance IMO...

With that big shift and all that trigger delay Hogan had to pretty much get "on top of it" and open up to keep his hands from getting stuck behind him. I know he moves right but he gets his head back to the left and opens up. If his head stayed back there he'd never get to the ball and would have to do some crazy stuff with his hands to get to low point.

After the wreck his swing tightened up and his arms seemed to work with his body better. This cat Slice Fixer made a good point about his motion. Basically his arm swing stops when his pivot stops so you don't have the arms continuing back several frames in a video. He makes the point that if your arms keep going you have to "make up those frames" by doing something compensatory. I think that is a valid point FOR THE PLANE HOGAN SWINGS ON. As fast as Hogan goes forward and left you'd think it would be critical for him to have his arms staying with his body from a timing stand point and a "connection" stand point.

That may not be the case for steep planes. Still thinking about that one.

What shoulder motion would you say expands the #4 angle? Being the master accumulator and all . . .

by expands the number 4 accumulator angle...you mean initiates release of 4?? I think that it is the slowing of right shoulder motion down plane...

Look at that video of mine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh184bHGkpM

why does the shaft stay near his right shoulder at the beginning of his downswing ( where shoulders go from about 100 degrees closed to about 50 degrees closed and the hands and clubhead travel equal amounts) where shoulder rotation is equal to clubhead rotation

to... shaft moving away from shoulder as the shoulders move about another 50 degress but the clubhead goes form above his head to impact.... that is the release of 4,2,3... and there is relatively little right shoulder motion during that phase of the swing... it still moves... but it is slower and still on plane....

The slowing of the right shoulder is the thing... the flywheel has spun the power package and the power package moves on as the flywheel slows ( but stays on plane)

At least that is the way I see it... mind still open to offers!

I don't understand why you think that the hands move away from the target to keep balance.

I think that Hogna's hands move away from the target because the shoulders have started to turn and that throws the clubshaft away from the target as the shoulder turns from 100 degrees to 70 degrees.

Consider a photograph of a good golfer hitting an iron -seen from above.



The figures represent the degree of torso-pelvis separation, and the degree of torso-pelvic separation decreases in the early downswing because the shoulders turn faster than the pelvis in the early downswing. Note as the right shoulder turns around that it must move away from the target, and that causes the hands to also move away from the target.

Here is the result of a study measuring many different values - and you can see that shoulder rotation speed exceeds pelvis rotation speed by the end of the early downswing (lead arm parallel to the ground).

http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/MyersTable.jpg

Regarding release of power accumulator 4, doesn't that happen from the start of the downswing - due to muscle pulling the left arm across the rotating torso as the torso rotates around in the downswing. The muscles colored in red in the following photo are the relevant muscles pulling the left shoulder socket and left arm.



I think that the clubshaft stays near the right shoulder at the start of the downswing because Hogan had very relaxed wrists and the small amount of movement of the hands at the start of the downswing has not yet affected the clubshaft which lags behind the hands.

Jeff.