LynnBlakeGolf Forums - Bending the Plane

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Man, I keep thinking I know some stuff, but every day I learn something new from an entirely different perspective. Thanks guys for keeping this fun!

Kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 68998)

Absolutely. The amount of work Daryl has put into this is staggering. But the TSP is a StartDown Plane of Motion. Impact is ideally along the Shaft Plane Angle, the clubs lie angle, which will also be considered an Elbow Plane if the Elbow is also on that same Plane Angle. A very good thing that most truly great golfers achieve at Impact and Homer reasoned the perfect alignment around which to adjust our machines at Fix. This alignment, this RFFW on the shaft plane at address is perhaps the only tell tail sign of a TGM adherent. That and some totally bizarre golf terminology.

Plane Shifts do happen, for longer swings anyways, but the straight line Base Line stays put. So keep tracing my friends. 1-L-18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NeizRf3JZY

The plane angle you release along is a function of what plane angle shifts you are employing and at what point you release. Its a flat plane yes, like a sheet of glass, that shifts its angle up and down with the base line staying in place.

Now if you point the entire flat plane, sheet of glass, left or right of the original target and trace the new straight base line associated with this new plane of motion , then you are said to have "bent the plane" or its base line to the left or the right. This new Delivery Path of the clubhead when combined with variations in clubface angles will produce curved shots for instance. You bend the plane to the right to hit a draw say. Meaning your sheet of glass is pointing right and your clubface is pointed left of that to some degree. The geometry stays the same, you still trace the base line, the plane angle changes etc.

Who put you up to this? I can't believe you said any of that with a straight face.

Seriously, people are going to believe you if you don't get back here and tell them you're only pranking them.

Quote:

7-7 PLANE ANGLE VARIATIONS Due to personal preference, natural inclination of the pressure of conditions it is not always possible or advisable to adhere to a single Inclined Plane classification throughout the entire Stroke. Players often – consciously or subconsciously – employ more than one of the “natural” Planes. The Shoulder Planes are the more consciously employed – the Elbow Plane the more – almost totally – subconsciously used. Vaguely or incorrectly defined Planes and Variations must be eliminated. The list is restricted to those of fairly common usage – good and bad. Other than the Right Shoulder positions, only the Elbow reference point has any great general usefulness. The “Hand Angle” is emergency or special purpose application. Wrist Action and the selected Inclined Plane must be compatible – watch especially with “No Wristcock” Strokes.

During any Shift of Planes the Clubshaft is held On Plane with the Plane Line as though the Plane itself were moving to the new location. Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release. And study 2-N.

Quote:

10-7-0 GENERAL Plane Angle Variations are classified according to the shifts in Plane Angle of the Stroke path. A shift may be made (1) during the Backstroke (2) during the Downstroke, or (3) at the Top of the Stroke.

10-7-A ZERO This classification is included so it can be indicated in a player’s prepared Stroke Pattern that one Basic Plane Angle is to be used throughout the stroke without a “Variation” – that is, No Shift.

10-7-B SINGLE SHIFT This Shift relates only to the shift from the Elbow Angle to the Turned Shoulder Angle during the Backstroke, with a Downstroke on the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle.

You worked hard on that, but when I imagined Kev trying to get to impact with a zeroed out #3 angle on a TSP angle, I had to, delicately, suggest another view of things. I didnt enjoy doing it.

I dont want to sound like Batman talking to Mr Freeze but if only your debauched genius were put to some common good.

OK after doing some research, I must retract my bent plane line procedure of post 10. That procedure being more correctly described as a straight base line, geometrically correct deal per 10-5-E Closed closed.

A bent plane line is an off plane, unscientific method without proper straight base line tracing.

Quote:

Per 4-D-O

Remember a flat plane has a straight baseline. A circle is two dimensional and can lie on a flat plane. If the Plane Line loses it straightness the Clubhead Orbit becomes three dimensional and precision vanishes.

Quote:

Per 10-5-0

Shifting from one Plane Line to any other, however slight, results in a Bent Plane Line (4-D-0) ,that genetic deformity of unscientific golf, with its Bent Left Wrist Syndrome, (3-F-7-A, 4-D-0). Whatever the symptoms the cure is Alignment Geometry and Educated Hands.

I stand corrected. But per 1-L-18 Changes in Plane Angle have no effect on the Plane Line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 69002)

We're misunderstanding each other.

My post has been incubating for years. The illustrations took a few minutes. But they aren't Impact Illustrations. At Impact, even on the Turned Shoulder Plane, ideally the Left Wrist is Level. Therefore, there will be an angle between the left arm and clubshaft. It's reduced because of the necessity to reduce the #3 Accumulator Angle to use the Turned shoulder Plane, but it nonetheless exists.

But this post is about release motions and bending the Plane line. Both halves of the release motion should occur on the same plane line (delivery line) else the clubhead orbit becomes 3 dimensional.

Can the Flat Left Wrist be used with a Double Plane shift? I said no, that the wrist should be bent. But, you can have a Flat left wrist if you keep the clubshaft on the elbow plane during the downstroke AKA Sergio Garcia.

The Hogan Swivel is not the TGM swivel. I had always thought it was but I don't anymore. I do think that the Hogan swivel helped Hogan prevent Bending the Plane-Line. But it's not the only way.

Questions remain. What is the relationship between bending the left wrist and clubshaft plane?

I think that Bending the Plane line is a universal problem and lots of Golf Methods deal with solving the problem without truly understanding it.

"Tripping the Shaft" is a term used to name the Hogan Swivel. "Forcing Alignments" through an explosive Pivot is still another way of dealing with the problem of bending the Plane Line and Dante's Magic Move was another. Others, like Byron Nelson, solved the problem by dropping his entire right side downward to drop the Turned shoulder plane onto the elbow plane in order to use a Flat Left Wrist.

It's odd that none of them discovered the Turned Shoulder Plane and Flat Left Wrist relationship. But every one of those solutions has worked and they've been proven reliable in competition. It's great that TGM helps you understand that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 69004)

At Impact, even on the Turned Shoulder Plane, ideally the Left Wrist is Level. Therefore, there will be an angle between the left arm and clubshaft. It's reduced because of the necessity to reduce the #3 Accumulator Angle to use the Turned shoulder Plane, but it nonetheless exists.

I dont know what you mean about the wrist bend and release , where is that covered in the book?

In the above quote you seem to be saying that a TSP angle at Impact is steep. What Im saying is that the TSP angle steep though it is, is not an angle for Impact but more of a Startdown plane angle prior to a shift to a lower plane. The impact plane angle must be the clubs lie angle in terms of degrees vs vertical. So if you were to make contact on a TSP angle it would have to be an extension of the clubs lie angle that bisected the turned right shoulder at top. Cant do that with all the clubs in your bag very easily. Maybe if you bent the lie angles on every club to conform to where your right shoulder turns to or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 69016)

I dont know what you mean about the wrist bend and release , where is that covered in the book?

The Bent Left Wrist Release, AKA the Hogan Swivel, is not the Recommended Procedure. It's unnecessary when using a TSP. All available non-recommended procedures are not included in the Book. The Hogan Swivel is only one of many ways to reconcile clubshaft vs. delivery path angles so that both halves of release can be executed while tracing the same delivery line.

Keep in mind that by sacrificing the Left Arm Wedge and Flat Left Wrist until Impact, makes sensing drag at startdown more difficult. Everyone has felt how much more heavy or resistant the club feels at start down when everything is aligned on one plane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 69016)

In the above quote you seem to be saying that a TSP angle at Impact is steep. What Im saying is that the TSP angle steep though it is, is not an angle for Impact but more of a Startdown plane angle prior to a shift to a lower plane. The impact plane angle must be the clubs lie angle in terms of degrees vs vertical. So if you were to make contact on a TSP angle it would have to be an extension of the clubs lie angle that bisected the turned right shoulder at top. Cant do that with all the clubs in your bag very easily. Maybe if you bent the lie angles on every club to conform to where your right shoulder turns to or something.

Quote:

7-6 BASIC PLANE ANGLES The Clubshaft must starts its journey on the Plane of its Address angle of inclination. It may or may not move to the other Planes as it travels. Clubs cannot be designed to be perfectly Soled (2-J-1) and still align the Clubshaft with more than one Plane Angle Reference Point. So those aligned between the Elbow and Shoulder Turn Planes have become the most widely accepted, because actually the Toe or Heel can be lifted enough safely accommodate either of the flatter or steeper Plane and therefore any listed Plane Angle reference Point (2-D-0). Even on hardpan, the Ball, normally is gone before the ground is touched. Then too, there is always the true Clubshaft Angle with 8-6 and/or 10-6-E. The ideal solution is a slightly rounded Toe and Heel for all Clubs. But also study 10-24-F.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 69004)

Wow . . . I'm not sure even where to start with all of this . . . do you not think that you can adjust the #3 accumulator angle to an elbow plane alignment and have a level left wrist? Do you not thing that you can have a level left wrist on the elbow plane? Hogan's wrist ain't bent . . . it's ARCHED??? Why does your illustration show NO #3 angle AT ALL ON THE TSP? Hogan was on the verge of bending the plane line??? Oh boy . . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 69024)

Wow . . . I'm not sure even where to start with all of this .

First, take a deep breath. Exhale slowly, then count to ten. :clock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 69024)

Why does your illustration show NO #3 angle AT ALL ON THE TSP?

:violent: Please See Post #1. "These are not illustrations of the Left Arm and Clubshaft at Impact."

Then, please see the photo of a golfer on the turned shoulder plane at impact in post #18.

We aren't taking about Impact and the Flat and Level Left Wrist. The thread topic is "Bending the Plane". :boxing:

Did Hogan have a Flat Left Wrist throughout his Downstroke and Release, and Shift planes and Uncock and roll on the same delivery line? No, he didn't have a Flat Left Wrist during the Downstroke. All that I've said about Hogan was that he found a way to uncock and roll on the same delivery line by using his "Swivel" as illustrated in "5 Lessons" and presented in post #6 above. :occasion: