Ben Doyle and Tommy T Video Series
 

These are both great video series, but for someone new to TGM I was wondering if they are compatible swing theories? Its hard for me to tell if Ben is teaching a swing or hitting stroke in the "ball turf" clip. He really accentuate's the hands ahead position at impact, more so than Tommy in his vids.

I understand Tommy is basically teaching a right hand swing, but what is Ben teaching in the "ball turf" video?

Thanks

Ben is trying to teach that guy to lag it....to tilt.....etc.

To feel impact.....where everything should be.

The point of hitting the tire and getting the club to stop is....if the club doesn't stop you have added more right hand.

Of course, this a very hard thing to stop doing.....which is why this lesson is a little painful to watch.

But if you understand what Ben's TRYING to get the guy to do.....that's the whole point.

And no matter what....the reality is this guy has a lot of training to do before he can lag that club.

...

Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (thru Impact)..."The Secret" - Homer Kelly (TGM)

Birdie,

gotcha, and im assuming lag is just as important weather your swinging or hitting. The guy in video iseems to be having a hard time creating even close to a 90 degree angle. (with the club and his left arm) But then again Julie Inkster seems to hit it well in the absence of a very acute angle there either.

But she COULD have more power....more effortless power.....and arguably, possibly even more consistency too.

Birdie,

It seems like some of the pro's have a 90 degree angle and some, like Hogan, Garcia, and if youve ever seen Paul Betholy's book, have a tremendously acute angle at the top. One guy told me the more acute angle at the top, the harder it is to time the uncocking at impact.

Tiger and Els have a less extreme angle at the top, maybe its because of the their strength that its not as neccessary for such an acute angle.

Somewhere around 90 degrees is fine....and the goal is to sustain it well into impact.

Hogan and Garcia had more (possibly due to cupping the left wrist....possibly due to flexible wrists....honestly couldn't tell ya, but I really would like to know)....

But like you said....most don't....Tiger, Phil, VJ, Ernie, Trevino, Moe Norman, Byron Nelson.....they ain't slouches.

And really....if you have to bend the left wrist to get that much angle it could really throw you off (most people do not need a clubface that's MORE open....i.e. you certainly would not want to get a slicer to do this)....

....and then again, it could work for you....and does work for some.

Nothing wrong with a flat wrist tho that's for sure.

If it's because of a bent left wrist I could agree a lot of the time....but not as a rule....and certainly not if the wrist is flat at the top.

You time nothing.....the release is automatic. (assuming a Swing- and a good one)

Law Of The Flail man. And it works like a flail. Like an inanimate flail works. That sucker releases when it wants to release.

...

Really, if anything, the reverse of that statement (above) is true as I see it.....having to time a release...."timing the flip."

You don't see so many world class and especially the absolute ALL-TIME elite ballstrikers flippin it.

Tons o' lag.

SNAP Release.

I'm no expert but...
 

you need to be careful about what you are describing when you say "lag" and "90 degree bend left wrist" - in TGM terminology is very precise.

The 90 degree bend you see is the amount of left wrist cock ( no. 2 accumulator) or the no. 3 accumulator angle. ( complcated at first but it as accumulator 3 is turn and roll of forearm then the mechanical effect of the foreaem action is determined by the no. 3 accumulator angle - i.e the amount of wrist cock present when you do the rolling action)


LAG is an additional component that is best sensed at pp3. You can have lag but zero wrist cock - as long as the shaft is leaning forward and the right wrist is bent/ left wrist flat.

I think this is one of the TGM issues that is hard to understand because common use of word lag in golf is amount of wrist cock ... but in G.O.L.F. it is more specific.

Wait for somebody to correct this but it is something like that anyway.!:eyes:

thanks guys, Im slowly getting a lot of the TGM theory and comprehending the concept of 2 types of lag.

So if your hands are ahead of the ball at impact its impossible to flip? The reason I ask, and I dont usually read too many of the golf mags for fear of more confusion, but look at what this guy is teaching and tell me if it is TGMish:

www.golf.com/ajvideo

Some would say flipping but at impact the club is coming downward into impact and he has a flat left wrist at impact.
Martin Hall a TGM guy says this dude is right and that all the pro's go from open to closed through impact adding efforless power. Seems like he is trying to get you to educate the hands...

incomplete
 

I'm not buying it. Bonar repeatedly says the only to open the clubface to the top is by cupping the left wrist. (BS) Repeated that a dozen times. Then he says later that you don't have to fan the club open but just cup it. So there is another way to open the clubface, which most of us knew. It is not hard to turn the face ON PLANE to the top and keep a flat left wrist. LESS MOVING PARTS.

Downward- of course. SO simple but few do it. Where's the ball? (Down)

Home run- I use to think he was teaching a Horizontal Hinge but that unflat cupped left wrist is closer to a a swivel into impact leading to a chicken wing. I don't think he does that in his swing he showed at the end- his wrist is flat and doesn't mention it inn the clip. INCOMPLETE

A FLAT LEFT WRIST is the foundation to everything. If you cup at the top you MUST Flatten it before impact. You cannot get out of Hackerville with a cupped left wrist.

A
 

A+ in keeping the identities separate Golfbulldog!

On this note and adding to your post- let's say you started with a ridiculous amount of #3 accumulator- say 90 degrees between the left arm and the shaft. Well at impact fix - looking straight on to the player- it lines up but as a result of the turn on the backswing- now look it how much divergence between the left arm and clubshaft - 90 degrees with no wrist cock- but that sure would look like a lot of movement.

Yes, the combination of #3 accumulator and wrist cock combine to create that visual image at the top of the angle between the clubshaft and the left arm.

Also an added feature of this angle at the top of the swing would depend on the camera angle and the swing plane angle. For one example say the camera is facing the player but slightly behind the player- say opposite the right foot- then the flatter the plane the more it will look as if the shaft has gone past 90 degrees in relation to the left arm. The more vertical the plane- the less this illusion would apply.