Rft
 

Was revisting the David Orr-RFT video and was wondering if the proper downstroke sequence would be the opposite feel of the takeaway? Another words, should there be a dropping of the right forearm and then a closing sensation, just the opposite of the fanning in the takeaway?

Fahgettaboutit!!!

"RFT = Can't play a lick!!!!!"

See 7-3 and 2-N-1 in the 7th edition. To start the downswing learn to uncock the right elbow through the right forearm....the Magic of the Right Forearm.

DG

Words Of Another
 

Readers should know that 12 Piece's post above is not meant to be taken literally. He was quoting cynically from a post by a GSED on another site who trashed The Golfing Machine's Right Forearm Takeaway (12-3 / Section 4/5 #17; 3-F-6; 7-3; 2-F; 12-5-3 #13).

Homer Kelley fully understood that the Right Forearm Takeaway does not replace the Pivot. Or vice versa. He knew that the Pivot and the Forearm are independent but coordinate. He taught that to his students, and he wrote that in his book.

Some get it.

Some don't.

Some get it some don't....
 

Yoda,

Is correct, some get it....some don't....learn to execute all that is available in TGM....hitting, swinging, the three hinges, lob shots, cut shots, straight line delivery path, Major Basic Strokes, Power Package Loading Action, etc.....you'll come to appreciate the right forearm takeaway...limit your experience with TGM and you might overlook the importance of RFT.

DG

IMO the right shoulder initiates a right forearm pickup.

Orr's video on it is really good.

Lot's of opinions on this I hate that neither side can appreciate the other. It's all good with me, whatever style you like, I appreciate both.

Homer said a left shoulder push is a pivot control of the hands but if you know how to recover and get back on plan, he is find with it. He even suggested that you try to do it as a drill so if you ever find yourself going off plane you don't have to stop or worry about it.

For me, I can't even do low and away anymore. My right arm takes the clubhead up, back and in on its merry way to start down. The Right Forearm Pick-Up Take-away is in my blood.

I shot the Orr video of the RFT at one of his workshops and agree that in the helm of kinesiology that the movement of the right arm is cause by the right shoulder moving. It is a right side take-away but the intent is for the right hand and forearm to move the club away. You don't need to know that the right shoulder moves- it will happen. The thought is of the hand taking the club up on Plane.

Homer said that the RFT comes closest to the the prefered swing circle need for precision. Sounds like the way to go to me.

As for the other guy who claims he teaches multiply stroke variations- he seems to miss the understanding of the term various.

Clowning the backswing or just clown.
 

Mr. Kelley wrote what he wrote and said what he said. And that is fact. Anything else is opinion, posturing and putting words in a dead man's mouth.

Mr. Kelley actually spoke on the Shoulder Turn Takeway saying that physics overrides geometry. He said that it could as a result potentially prevent Throwaway. That is also fact. He was all about OPTIONS . . . HOWEVER . . . The Right Forearm he called Magic . . . he called the pivot "the sack you put the Components in . . ." I pick Magic over sack. If you want to use the Shoulder Turn Takeway no problemo. Homer said you could clown the backswing . . . downstroke . . . different story.

Those that think RFT = Can't Play A Lick . . . don't have a lick of sense.

It's Not About the Right Forearm
 

I agree with your conclusion regarding the right shoulder, glcoach. But you do yourself an injustice when you state it is merely your "opinion." In truth, it is an anatomical fact: You simply cannot lift your arm (except the forearm from the elbow) without using your shoulder muscles.

From 2-M-3 (Muscles): "Deltoids -- they raise the arms..."

The Right Shoulder is a Dual Agent (2-H): It is part of both the Pivot and the Power Package (the Triangle of the Shoulders, Arms and Club). As such, it must participate in the Start Up. My post did not disparage the Pivot or those who focus on it. In fact, it made the point that the Pivot and the Right Arm are both important and that they coordinate in the Takeaway.

Regarding 'appreciating the other side,' I am on the side of The Golfing Machine -- that covers a lot of territory! -- and I make no bones about it. That is my privilege. If someone else believes otherwise and teaches otherwise and does otherwise, well...that is their privilege. And it doesn't bother me in the least.

However, the remark in question -- "RFT=Can't play a lick" -- goes far beyond such philosophical differences. It is a flippant judgment that is both condescending and contentious. When these words come in private conversation or as forum banter between self-styled cyber-warriors, it is one thing. But, it is quite another when they come as a public pronouncement from an Authorized Instructor of The Golfing Machine, one who holds its highest designation (GSED) and who is bound to uphold its principles and support his fellow Authorized Instructors.

Despite this particular Instructor's damning assessment, many Authorized Instructors believe otherwise -- that is their privilege -- and they do teach 'the book,' including its Right Arm Takeaway. To ridicule them and their teaching -- "RFT=can't play a lick" -- is in direct violation of the Professional and Ethical Conduct clauses of the Authorized Instructor agreement, one which this particular individual signed and is thus bound to honor. Point of fact: To make "disparaging, demeaning, or degrading comments about fellow Authorized Instructors" is deemed conduct "unworthy or unbecoming of an Authorized Instructor."

Now, I personally am no longer an Authorized Instructor. So why should I care? Three reasons:

1. Most of the many Professional Contributors to this site are Authorized Instructors, and most, if not all, teach the Right Arm Takeaway as described in The Golfing Machine. To demean their teaching demeans them. I don't appreciate it, and quite frankly, I don't think they do, either.

2. Homer Kelley worked indefatiguably for more than forty years to benefit all golfdom. His earnest conclusions deserve respect, even if it is respectful disagreement. I bridle when his genius is made the subject of arrogant ridicule, especially when it comes from within.

3. Somebody needs to point out this professional misconduct, and it might as well be me. :)

Bottom line:

It is not the point of view I find so offensive...

It is the attitude.

There is no opinion, there is no style, only facts. The right forearm has to move 3 dimensionally in accordance to the secondary lever assembly motion on the inclined plane in order to have the clubhead traveling in a consistant orbit. If you set the mass or weight of the clubhead off in an incorrect orbit initially, you will be working against the physics of gyroscopic motion requiring compensation later in the backstroke.