Why Do we Post on GEA??????
 

Guys and Gals ... forgive me. I'm a bit upset. I can't understand why so many generous decent people from this forum waste their time on GEA. Yes, GEA is where I first heard of Yoda and Ted but I would have stumbled on it somehow. It hardly seems worth it for Ted or Bagger or any others to go on and get baited by that windbag George Hibbard or others. I admit to buying GH book Golf's Critical details.....I probably have at least 30 golf instruction books (beside the yellow book)and ol' George's book doesn't make it on the book shelf... It has served as a not very handsome coaster and a functional door stop.

This has gone on for quite awhile and the latest thread on "best instruction ever received" was an example of baiting brought to a new level. Apparently, one of those baited finally snapped. Most of us, when presented with an opportunity to direct someone with sincere interest or curiosity will mention lynnblakegolf.com to them anyway. I don't see the need for all the abuse at that place. It used to be a cordial site to visit...no more. It is time to leave it to the "no-it-alls" who try something new each week. What do ya' think?

Gea
 

Post there for the people who do appreciate it, not for those who don't. As long as there is a large group of people there are going to be disagreements. Things over there usually have a harder edge to them during winter months.

The Lunatic Fringe
 

It's no surprise that TGM is viewed by the rest of the golfing community as the "lunatic fringe". For instructors who know better, TGM is the biggest single threat to their business because:

1.) They can't dispute anything about it, other than the writing style.
2.) They are overwhelmed by it's complexity, so they don't attempt to try and understand it.

It's part and parcel of the thread Lynn started on being the "Irrepressible Revolutionary" and as such, TGM has earned it's rightful place in the public stage.

There is a lot of work to do to translate Homers work for the simplicty buffs and it presents a huge opportunity. But there are also problems internally because even GSED's get some of the basics wrong. For instance, I watched a commercial video of a GSED recently who prescribed the sweetspot turning around the hosel, and let's not even discuss Hitting. So there are challenges internally and externally, but that's why this forum and website exist. To clear the fog, to make the messages more understandable, and most of all to help bring power and precision to everyone's game.

I don't post much on other forums, but when there is significant fog showing up and TGM is associated with it, I'll jump in with both feet and attempt to help change the weather. Problems occur when book references are thrown around to validate a concept. Book references are great on this site because we are students. But for the rest of the world it's a turnoff to golfers, and a threat to instructors who don't have much exposure to Homer.

Many liken TGM to a cult and according to the definition, they are right. But they don't acknowledge that they to are part of a cult and probably aren't even aware of it. See (5) below.

Merriam Webster Definition -
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion.

Do cults become mainstream? There are many, many examples. Everyone has a belief system concerning the golfswing. For some it's Hogan, for others Moe Norman, the rest of the world is looking to tour players and their associated instructors as holding the keys.
Regardless of where you hang your hat, there is a belief system involved and any time that belief system is threatened, there will be resistance to change. I think Ted is doing a terrific job in dispelling perceptions about TGM that other instructors are throwing about. If left unanswered, TGM will remain in the dark ages, and the lunatic fringe will never do an about-face to reverse the order on the public stage.

It will start here, then with tour players willing to endorse TGM, then on the Golf Channel, then in mainstream publications, then on forums, then in books/DVD's, etc. On and on, "probably endlessly" and not necessarily in that order.

Bagger

I think you would ask those who seem to react to TGM posting per-se they are reacting to either the individual posting or historical posters.

6 years ago when there were few places TGM was mentioned on the few forums, it was really the posters who created the bad will so to speak. They would denounce everything and everyone or they would insist that you had to speak TGM only when addressing an issue, etc. When asked for details they got more TGM terms, etc. Back then Chuck's was the only forum it was really safe to go on and not expect to be atacked.

This is unfortunate but much of that has continued in various forms across other forums which is something we will have to live with and try to do a better job in the future to prevent this conduct from slowing the word to get out.

For example most people believe that TGM is a particular instruction style/method that is unique unto itself.

I know I have was a closet TGM person since the 80s till early 2002. The few times that I would reference TGM it was always hammered, so someone gave it a bad rap along the way.

Bagger...I've just quoted the end of your post because that is what I want to discuss and I don't necessarily disagree with any of it. I'm just so angry, I have to vent. Ted is absolutely doing a wonderful job. I've seen Ted twice as a result of a post by "dukenasty" about 1 1/2 yrs ago GEA, so I understand that it can have some value in getting the word out. But that was also before this site existed. And what does Ted get for his generous sharing of the golf swing? A throwdown from some 65 yr. old 4.3 index (probably from 5500 yds).... some nut actually challenged Ted to a golf match. Can anyone say 10 and 8. (I'm guessing the next challenge will be from that same nut telling me no way he looses 10-8, what do I want to bet...why do we deal with these fringe lunatics?)

But I don't think GEA forum is going to get TGM on the golf channel, nor is it going to get touring pros to endorse it. I believe anyone who is going on GEA should understand it isn't the nice place it used to be AND liberal use of the 'ignore' function is suggested. If people can't be polite and appreciate and the quality of free instruction being offered 'ignore' them. I'm done with GEA for at least a long time.

GEA again
 

Unless I'm mistaken, the Links at Shirley school in Long Island, NY
was comprised of almost, if not all, GEA'rs. So posting there must be doing some good.

Not trying to sound ignorant, but...
 

What is GEA? :???:

Golf Equipment Afcianados Board. It's about the oldest internet golf forum out there.

I Believe It Was...
 

I was the one who initiated it(something I'm still proud of) from reading about Brian's results after visiting Ted on GEA. I think most of us were from GEA.

As far as George, I believe he fears for his livelihood. The others are just trollers. You learn to ignore them.

OK, here comes a confession: I thought you guys were a bunch of kooks three or four months ago. You all spoke in gibberish and were adamant to a point of insanity. I read posts by TGM people all over the place and they all seemed the same at first -- you're all a bunch of loons.

Then I read some more. And more. I always kept my mind open, even though I thought you guys were a bunch of nuts. Then I figured out that perhaps the only reason I thought TGM folks were looney was because of the language barrier they were creating. Homer created a language and definition base for golf instructors, but the rest of the world didn't learn this. To me, it is the job and the duty perhaps, of every TGM AI or devotee to explain the definitions to the general public. Better yet, just talk plain. Remove the barrier altogether.

See, now I don't think all TGM guys are nuts -- I have a working translator, which gets better every day. It's what I'm known for and how I am wired. It made me a good reporter and makes me a much better teacher. So maybe we should look at ourselves as well.

On the other hand, there are a few guys over at GEA who will always be the rear-end of a mule. Hibbard is one to me. I've seen his stuff on the Internet for years, and he always ends up wearing out his welcome. You should see of the posts on the old Google groups. I actually like to wind him and those other guys up and watch them spin :) I don't post as Vandal over there, either.

Edit: I just went through the majority of that thread and it appears that Yodasolo is banned for life. I have no idea what happened over there, but I do know the George Hibbard is a fool.

GEA- Yes, it's worth it to post there
 

I am EXACTLY in the same boat as another poster- for me as well, GEA came first, and thanks to Duke Nasty's post, I started to become curious about this "TGM-Yoda" stuff. My God, like the other poster, I TOO bought GH's book, and also scrapped it after reading it. Our similarities are uncanny. Anyhoo, my point is: no GEA = no TGM (for me, and probably many others). Ted should keep right on posting, and have fun with the detractors. And for us sideline dwellers, what is better than a dust-up between our very own "Sultan of Swat" and the "Sultan of Senility" anyway? I mean, at the very least, it's great theater, and people with any common sense can judge Ted/Yoda/TGM's merits on their own. I say post like hell on the GEA, CStanford and IMPERFECTIMPACT notwithstanding.

Yep...
 

I agree, Ted should keep on posting there(but of course, that's his decision). He is a well of knowledge. But, I just feel like smackin' somebody when the trolls start the personal attacks.

This says a lot about why Pingboy reacted the way he did.

I just saw that, too. I was tempted to ask him about the sponsorship thing, but figured it was better to leave it alone.

Again I ask...
 

Hibbard is a sponsor... that explains why Derek allowed all the baiting by George. It also explains why the old windbag will be allowed to say pretty much whatever he wants. I've put GH on ignore... his posts are too lengthy and never say anything (sounds like a book I read by him also). But I still doubt I'll go back there. It is a waste of my time and I just can't see the reason.......

Best part of that place are the equipment discussions, but I've noticed that they've fallen behind lately and other Web sites pick stuff up earlier.

please let them know that...
 

I am or was YodaSolo. Before I go any further, can someone please tell them (I have repeatedly said this myself but people don’t read the whole post) that I am NOT Lynn Blake. I do not want to besmirch Lynn’s good name. So someone please let them know that- ASAP !!

For the record since my post was removed and it seems Pingboy is emailing it to anyone on his side and his good friend and paying advertiser George Hibbard. I told no lies about George and as posts go- was not all that scathing.

I called George an old man and asked if he turned 70 yet (he is 74) because he whines like one. If you read my first post in that thread, I said that I was glad he finally recognized that Homer’s delayed Hip Turn (10-14-B and 10-15-B and I never post sections to the general public) was Austin’s Compound Hip motion. In the past it outraged him that anything Austin could be explained with Homer’s book. He was very friendly but it was odd that he was and said that it was the compound pivot. I was kinda shocked.

I wrote Ted and said that I was hesitant to reply to Hib because he is a TGM hater and baits and attacks after a few posts and when trapped will always use the lingo card that no body can understand the book. This is exactly what happened here. I didn’t follow my own advice.

On other forums in years past I, thinking he was sincere about understanding the book, offered to help explain, translate and guide him through sections. He always told me he knows the book just fine- and he does know some things.

On FGI, he and Boris, another TGM hater (and I think took a lesson from Lynn to boot) shut down the instruction forum for a while. He mentioned Boris in his attack posts so I brought him up in my post.

While on FGI, I was intrigued by all the Austin stuff- they had legendary threads. They hated George who passed himself off as an expert in everything Austin. I was getting email from the regular Austin folks to pay no attention to him. He now has a self-published book and DVD out on the swing.

I always posted straight forward information about TGM and have answered dozens of emails from some of you that went on with several replies. George on every forum sits and waits every few months and launches an attack on someone that was trying to be helpful explaining the basics (I’m no genius) about TGM.

One of my early posts was to “thank’ GEA for allowing such good posts about TGM without the sheet we get on other forums. It is important to explain TGM simply outside of this forum whenever the chance emerges.

Ted is the best on that site and yes the Long Island workshop was heavy GEA attended. Bravo for that.

Someone please let them know that Yoda Solo was 6bmike and not Lynn Blake.

I need a real life.

mike

Mike,
I'm sorry you had to go through that with those morons. George is impossible to be nice to... he simply doesn't allow it. He is also too much of a windbag to ever understand...no one can wait for any information at the end of the lengthy monologue.. And I guess you saw that he is a 'friend' of the moderator.

I still think knowledgeable TGM instructors make a mistake posting in hostile environments. If you take that "best instruction you've ever received" thread as an example, I believe it is just as effective for one of the 'instructed' (me , for example) to reply and mention Ted and this website. I think when baited it is normal to defend oneself and that can make an individual appear either sarcastic, nasty or almost as crazy as the baiters. That doesn't help any cause either.

Just for clarification, I thought it was YodasLuke (Ted Fort) that was banned over there. I think because I was reading along and then saw the banned post by pingboy and thought Ted Fort.

Also, I thought YodaSolo was Lynn Blake. So I would strongly recommend that someone go there and with a new thread make some STRONG CLARIFICATIONS.

Rumbler

Did you read all the posts? They appear to have clarified who's who.

Done...
 

Myself and at least two others have made sure that everyone over there knows that Yodasolo is not Lynn.

Yoda...We Hardly Knew Ye!
 

Thanks, guys. I found it somewhat comical to learn I was 'banned' from a Forum on which I have never posted. :lol:

I was also gratified to have the now TGM-fluent YodaSolo, a.k.a. 6bmike, identified as me. It shows how deep the LBG 'bench' has become!

Reports of your death have been greatly exagerrated, eh? :smile:

Still Here!
 

Mark Twain had nothing on ol' Yoda! :D

Re: GEA
 

I hope that the experts here continue to post on GEA. I first heard of TGM via GEA and FGI.com (which I never visit any more). Others will learn of TGM in the same way. Think of GEA as a pool of potential TGM advocates and ignore the baiters, as we all must on any internet forum.

Having stated this, it *is* a turn-off to the uninitiated when overly technical terms and numerical references are used on a non-TGM forum. I know, because I was turned off for a year. What brought me to TGM more than anything were the simplified explanations by Yoda Solo and the glowing reviews of the camp on Long Island. Speaking of Yoda Solo, may I know your handle on this forum? I wish to thank you for your contribution to my learning.

teach

Me too!
 

I would also like to know who Yodasolo is on this forum, too. You were very instramental in increasing my knowledge of TGM on GEA.

See post #18 in this thread, 6bmike mentions he posted as YodaSolo on the GEA forum.

Thanks 6bmike
 

6bmike,

Thank you for the numerous explanations that you have provided as YodaSolo at GEA. You are probably more responsible than anyone for my becoming a TGMer, albeit a novice one at this point. The fact that you always explained things there in a manner that was understandable for this newbie, and countless others, makes you a helluva teacher.

Ed, thanks for pointing me to the appropriate post. I have been away, so I came to this thread from page 3 as I tried to catch up with the most recent posts.

teach

It's A Wonderful Life
 

Mike,

Are you reading all these posts? Do you see the incredible influence you have had within the TGM movement? And these are only those who have written. Behind them are many more who 'came on down' because of you.

If there was ever any doubt, know that...

You do indeed have a "real" life.

And I, for one, am proud to be part of it.

Most people on GEA and FGI use golf more as entertainment than anything. They are all looking for quick fixes and not really looking to try and improve their game.

Now, before i get flamed..i said "most." There are plenty others who are not who i described above and is the reason why Manzella's, Evans, and Blake's sites all flourish.

These people (including myself) have used information and ideas/opinions from all the 3 named above and found something out:

WHAT THEY SAY HAS HELPED MY GAME IN SOME FORM OR WAY A LOT!

So what did i do? I joined their sites and i continue to learn this day after 2.5 years. I am one of the best ballstrikers i know because of it and i also am persuing a career in teaching as well.

You just can't please everyone, so just let them go.

:)

A Community Of All Of Us
 

And more than a few seekers have been helped by your own posts, Jim. Thank you for your many contributions!

It's true, Mike!
 

Amen, Yoda.

I am overwhelmed by what has been said. Thank you very much.

Lynn, you know the first screen name you gave me was Han Solo and we all know how he shot before thinking. How appropriate a name you gave me.

Every post I wrote on gea was as much for my benefit as it was yours. Spend time organizing thoughts on paper is a good way to self teach. I’m glad it reach some of the readers. I always referred the members to see Lynn and Ted. They are the fog lifters. Ted don’t stop posting there, just don’t be the jerk I was.

As for that post- odd that anyone can read it by request. The harshest word I used was ‘chump.’ And everything I said about GH was the truth- okay the harsh truth. I was angry but not a liar.

Thank you
Thanks Teach, Lynn, Jim, BJNY and everyone else.

Han may have reacted 'passionately' to some situations, but I think any true fan knows that his contributions were critical to success.

As is yours.

I've never so much as read anything on GEA, but I assume from the comments that it must be a lot like FGI can be at times.

Everybody has different perspectives. Many are passionate about them.

Nothing wrong with that.

Unique perspectives are opportunties to learn from each other.

Peace.

Wear your asbestos suit over there.
 

Ed Z said, "I've never so much as read anything on GEA, but I assume from the comments that it must be a lot like FGI can be at times."


Ed, George Hibbard appears to be the self-appointed top dog there. Enough said? ;)

So what? George is more passionate about golf than most and has studied the swing much more than most will ever give him credit. You don't have to agree or disagree with him to appreciate his dedication to the game.

That is the real point of all these boards. The members all love the game and want to help each other.

I think we should lock up this thread. But not until I get 2 more cents. (sorry) I never had trouble with his knowledge of the golf swing. The point of my so called ‘over the top’ post was about his integrity, how he uses false sincerity asking several questions about Homer and the book only to wait for an ally and trash everything you wrote. I don’t care if he likes or even understands TGM - just don’t prance back every few months wide-eyed and inquisitive just start I conversation to set up an attack to trash HKelley. So I called him the C word- ‘Chump.’ George could be the wizard of the golf world (he isn’t) but it doesn’t justify being a loathsome scoundrel.

That was kinda my point. George starts out civil, then he loses it and brings out the flame thrower. Passionate? Well... only if you agree with whatever he posts. Disagree, and he turns into a flamer.

Other than this forum, isn't the behaviour described found on just about all forums? There always seems to be a few posters who every so often have to stir the pot, guess it makes them feel better.

Surely it is healthy to use golf as entertainment:confused:


Regards

Sean

(PS I have no great loyality to GEA and have never used FGI)