Underground plane line
 

Just wanted to get input on this. I drew a couple sketches of my impressions of the inclined plane. (please excuse, I'm a lover not an artist :lol: )






My understanding is that we continue the downstroke through impact towards the low point with the down, out and forward. Only then does one come upward into the finish.

So should the actual aiming point along the plane line that is underground (i.e. a little forward of the impact point, and more outside the target line)? Any thoughts?

Directing Thrust At An On Plane Aiming Point
 

Very nice, rchang! Because your simple question demands a not so simple answer, I have actually given two answers: the Basic Answer (Item #3) and the Advanced Version (Item #6). Accordingly, I've moved your post to the Advanced Section where any discussion of points #4-#6 should take place. Hang on...this is going to get a little sticky, especially for the newer students.

1. The Target Line could also be labeled the Impact Point Plane Line, and the line passing through the Low Point could be labeled Low Point Plane Line. There should be nothing mysterious about these lablels: They merely identify parallel lines that co-exist on the face of the same Inclined Plane and that pass through two defined points.

2. The Impact Point Plane Line does indeed rest atop the ground, whereas the Low Point Plane Line is in the ground, but again, on the same Inclined Plane.

3. Here then, is the Basic Answer to your question: Because the two Lines are parallel, when you point at one -- with the Tracing Right Forearm and #3 Lag Pressure Point -- you simultaneously point at the other. Therefore, it is sufficient to direct your Thrust at -- but through! -- an Aiming Point on the Impact Point Plane Line.

But, as promised, there is more!

4. The Three-Dimensional Direction of Thrust -- Downward, Outward and Forward -- will be that defined by the Delivery Path of the Hands (7-23). This concept is most clearly illustrated by Photo 10-23-A #1.

5. This Delivery Path Line of Thrust is established at Impact Fix and is parallel to the Right Forearm Angle of Approach: Note (1) the Right Forearm in Photo 10-19-A #2 is pointing directly at the Impact Point Plane Line but well in front of the Ball; and (2) that the Right Forearm is parallel to the Delivery Path. Thus, the Right Forearm Angle of Approach precisely defines:

• a. The parallel Delivery Path of the Hands;
  
  b. The Right Forearm's own Cross Line (but On Plane) Thrust through Impact; and also
  
  c. The Angle of Approach of the Clubhead (through the Inside Aft qadrant of the Ball where the eye directs the Delivery Path Thrust via Pressure Point #3 (7-3 and 7-11).

[Note: Photo 10-19-A #2 is meant to depict Drive Loading, not the Right Forearm Angle of Approach. This is the first time -- and possibly the last -- that I will use a photo for a purpose beyond its captioned intent. The reason I've done so is that there is no better photo in the book with which to illustrate this esoteric concept.]

6. So, here then, is the Advanced Answer to your question: The Aiming Point -- established at Impact Fix -- is located at the intersection of the Impact Point Plane Line and the Three-Dimensional Line of Thrust defined by Delivery Path of the Hands and its parallel Right Forearm Angle of Approach. It is precisely down that Line that you direct your #3 Pressure Point Thrust -- Down Plane through the Impact Point and Low Point until Both Arms are Straight (1-L-15).

Great post lynn.

From a hypothetical view point -

If the impact point plane line and the 'underground' plane line were the same (the ball on a tee, exact, perfect low point separation). What angle with the ground would an 'ideal' line of thrust be for the right forearm?
(Assume a perpendicular to the ground primary lever, and turned shoulder plane).

I'd like to further understand your perspective on this one (not go down the path of previous discussion).

Thanks -

The Angle Of The Turned Shoulder Plane Angle
 

From a down-the-Line view, the Right Forearm during Impact will be on the angle of the Turned Shoulder Plane. This Ideal Plane Angle should not be thought of in terms of an absolute degree of Tilt. Instead, it will vary:

1. From Club to Club (Steeper for the shorter Clubs and Flatter for the longer Clubs per 7-5/6/7);

2. Between Hitters and Swingers (the Shorter Shoulder Turn of the Hitter requires a Steeper Plane per 2-H); and

3. From Player to Player (the less flexible players may have a shorter Shoulder Turn and therefore use a Steeper Plane).

Thanks, I'll have to incubate a bit on the shoulder turn vs. plane, which while it makes sense, I wonder if it is more a matter of anatomy than geometry.

What would your perspective be from a face on view?

Establishing The Clubshaft's Forward Lean
 

The Clubshaft's Forward Lean (2-J-2) through Impact and the Right Forearm's Angle of Approach are dictated by:

1. Club design (2-G);

2. Plane Angle and the consequent Clubhead Line Of Flight (2-N-O);

2. Ball Location (3-F-7-E); and

3. The degree of Right Wrist Bend established at Impact Fix (6-C-2-A).

Yoda,

Is it possible to see the Right Forearm Angle of Approach and the Angle of Approach procedure on a Horizontal Plane e. g. like a mat on the ground ala Ben Doyle?

Thanks!

r

Thanks Yoda. I still don't entirely understand how to practice the delivery path of hands, so I'm going to have to process this. If I read you correctly, I should think of it like a karate strike with the heel of an open palm through the aiming point?

Wrist and Hand Action Down The Delivery Path
 

For Swingers, the Sequenced Release (4-D-0) involves the Left Hand palm-down-to-the-Plane Karate Chop into Release followed by the Left Wrist Swivel into Impact. Meanwhile, the Right Hand is responsible for the passive Aiming of the #3 Pressure Point as Centrifugal Force provides the Active Clubhead Drive.

For Hitters, the Release of the Left Wrist Cock and Left Hand Roll are simultaneous. Both are actuated by the straightening Right Elbow. Thus, there is no Karate Chop and no Left Wrist Swivel into Impact. As with Swinging, the Right Hand's #3 Pressure Point provides guidance to the Stroke, but in addition, it also funnels the Right Arm Thrust as Active Clubhead Drive.

I wrote a previous post that has since gone with little response, so I will take this opportunity to try and get some clarification.

The Impact Point Plane Line must always be above or atop the ground unless a specail shot (bunker explosion shot).

The Low Point Plane Line can below ground (any golf stroke that takes a divot at or after the golf ball), it can be atop the ground (the pick clean shot or the Teed Driver or any other shot that doesn't take a divot).

I beleive that depending upon the ball location, the hinging action and golf stroke (hitter/swinger) the location of the low point can be other than outside of the target line.

This raises the question "Is the target line is really the Impact Point Plane Line?" The Target Line can cross the Plane Line. The Impact and Low Point Planes must use the Sweet Spot Plane.

Since we cannot see beneath the surface, all line we visualize or make marks would be on the surface. Visualizing the Low Point Plane Line doesn't seem to have much merit IMO unless someone can point out some reason to do so.

Plane Line Patter For TGM Junkies
 

My good friend Martee -- a Hall of Fame poster if there ever was one -- has asked for clarification regarding Plane Lines. Well, buckle up, folks, because here we go!

1. My quoted answer to rchang72 was in specific reference to his two graphics wherein the ball rested on the ground and the Low Point was in the ground. However, as Martee correctly points out, in the case of a Teed Ball there may be only 'air' divots -- this great phrase courtesy of our own PGA Professional Drewitgolf! -- or with a Ball placed precisely at Low Point only a brushing of the ground.

2. And it is possible, as Martee points out, that that the Low Point could be "other than outside the Target Line." Certainly that would be the case if the Ball is positoned at Low Point (in which case it would be on the Target Line).

3. Of course, the Target Line and the Plane Line are two different 'animals' and must maintain their respective identities. This is the case even when the Plane Line (either Impact Point or Low Point) lies atop the Target Line. Hence, the nine different Plane Line-Stance Line-Target Line Combinations of 10-5. And remember, you aways swing along (Trace) the Plane Line, but only in the Square-Square Combination of 10-5-A do you swing along the Target Line.

4. Finally, as I pointed out in my post to rchang72, in those instances where the Low Point Plane is indeed below ground, it is enough to monitor only the Impact Point Plane Line that is above ground. Then, make sure you Trace it with your Right Forearm in its Three-Dimensional, Downplane Attack Angle (of Approach) per 2-N-0 and 7-3. This will insure that the Clubhead makes its proper Down, Out and Forward orbit (Arc of Approach per 2-J-3) through the Impact Point Plane Line toward Low Point.

There now, Martee. Glad we got that all cleared up! :shock:

Here is a picture I drew that, hopefully, can add something to the discussion.

http://www.imagehosting.us/imagehost...jpg/?id=221660

Drawing
 

Is the impact line really that severe, it appears to be at about a 45* angle, or is this exagerated for instuctional purposes?

Thanks. That is most helpful in clearing up directional vectors and how the clubhead diverts the ball from the tangential path of the thrust.

Also, I much appreciated your efforts at GEA to explain the planes. Understanding the significance of the Turned Shoulder Plane helped me a lot. You "suffered slings and arrows" for your persistance and deserve some kudos for that. :)

Charlie(max)

Re: Drawing
 

Yes, the angle of approach is quite sever...the "openness" of the clubhead in the drawing, however, is exagerated so you can see it better. It is really more like 3 degrees.

Thanks mgjordan. Love the drawing.

rc72/mgj,

Your drawings should be shown and explained to EVERY student of the golf swing, whether beginner or tour player. The ultimate would be a sequence of 3-D versions of these sketches from Impact to Separation.