right forearm "pickup"
 

can someone please describe the right forearm pickup in some detail? thanks

Re: right forearm "pickup"
 

The Right Forearm Pick Up, the Right Arm Vertical Take-Away, the Right Forearm Take-UP. It's lnown by many names.

It is a non-left shoulder take-away.

The movement of the right arm is up, back and in- simultaneously and immediately. Up, Back and In is a three dimensional motion on plane. Much like the motion of yanking a cord of a small engine to start it up.
Take the right arm up like being "sworn in" in a court room. It is a simply move that evades us in words.
Check a search for the word Fanning on this site, too.

In Homer Kelley’s own words about the Right Arm Vertical Take-Away “..be sure that you have it. It is absolutely essential to alignment golf. If you have a shoulder turn takeaway you immediately have gone into pivot control hands."

Re: right forearm "pickup"
 

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mike... Is this last quote from a tape or seminar ?

The quote is from an audio tape from Lynn Master Class in 1982.

"If you have a shoulder turn takeaway you immediately have gone into pivot control hands"

If this is true, there are a more Pivot Controlled Hands guys on tour than Hand Controlled Pivoters. But, Homer also said he didn't much care about the BS. I think whether or not you use a Hand Controlled Pivot depends on what you do starting at the Top and not how you execute the BS.

This is true. Homer didn't care how you got to the top. You could make all the changes you needed to get the club back on plane.

What Homer also states is that the RFT is the closes thing to a true circle in the golf swing and the one that eliminates any adjustments before the downswing. His quote of its importance and its success works for me.

Re: right forearm "pickup"
 

There are several good replies to your question. I'd like to offer these thoughts.

The right forearm pickup increases the odds for a geometrically correct back stroke , especially if extensor action is applied (assuring the left shoulder is the steady radius of the back stroke motion) and the right elbow bends immediately.

An impact fix with the right forearm on plane, and then an adjusted address without changing the plane angle, produces a great place to begin the backstroke using the right forearm pickup.

Hope this helps

The Edge
 

It is true...

And those TOUR players who would cut their stroke average one-quarter shot per round would do well to know the difference.

Yoda,

How did you determine that Statistic??? I'm in the process of teaching a SPC (Statistical Process Control) course!!!

DG

More On The Edge
 

I simply meant that at the TOUR level, the difference between first and second place -- between winning and losing -- is only one shot. The same is true for making or missing the cut. Given a four-day tournament, that is a mere one-quarter stroke per round. In that arena, the precision alignments of The Golfing Machine can make the difference.

There's a free video on www.brianmanzella.com that shows brian demonstrating the right forearm pickup among other things.

It ISN'T the pay videos, do a small search and i believe it is the flat left wrist video

The file name is segment1bw.wmv and he demonstrates it around the 8:46 mark. Hope that helps.

http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/for...?TOPIC_ID=1735

There's the thread where has the link

The teaching clip wouldn't play completely but there is also a video of his swing and the frames are provided in the post on 'Brian's Swing Sequence frames' under video and swing sequences. One observation, the right elbow doesn't move laterally in the RF pickup.

Is he a Swinger?

DRW

Brian can do both but he is better when he hits.

I just played the clip again and it worked fine for me.

Left Arm Push Away
 

My "habitual" stroke pattern is to take the the club back (and up) with my left arm. I have better balance, it keeps me from swaying or dipping my left shoulder, my left wrist remains flat and I usually stop at the top or end. I also feel like it helps me to let my right side take over, make a motion through the ball to the finish. I have extensor action but is probably reversed. I have the Right Forearm Pickup as a skill and "can" hit some decent shots but I can not get it into a habit. If Carey is listening, I can not automatically get my right forearm to initiate the start up. When I am warming up, making a practice stroke, or swinging a weighted club, and I have no intention making an actual stroke...my left arm always initiates the startup.

Is the Right Forearm Pickup or Twistaway really important to TGM or can I skin my cat with a left arm start up? My game and swing has improved immeasurably since being exposed to TGM (last Oct) but I have hit the RFP wall.

Thanks much.

PChandler

Lynn likes to teach the RFP and brian feels it is an option but not the only option.

He just posted another video short describing his modified shoulder turn takeaway and the right forearm pickup. I'd highly advise you watching and learning the difference and you'll have a lot of fog lifted.

I don't use a RFP and i do just fine :)

Can you use a little help fromt he left wrist when doing RFP? I found that I apply a push from my left wrist and then RFP fanning and up easier, and also keep my left shoulder from moving out. Also avoid when doing RFP I have a tendency to move the club slightly back first.

Hey Daryti

This may be a contentious issue, but for me anyways, I do have a little push with the left hand or so it seems. BUT ITS A PUSH AGAINST THE #2 PRESSURE POINT in the Heel of the left hand and associated with Left Hand Wrist Cock which is a result of the Pick UP, Right Elbow Bending. NOT A PUSH AWAY OR PUSH BACK OF THE CLUB WITH THE LEFT HAND OR ARM. This maybe goes against the grain of the Left Arm as a piece of string, I know.

If the RFT is divided into a separate Fanning and a Bending at the elbow (pickup) motions then this pressure or perhaps pushing at the PP#2 is done in concert with the Bending only. But if the Fanning and Bending overlap each other as they should then this pressure at the PP#2 is felt very early in the RFT.

Another contentious thing perhaps, but one I like anyways is that RFT doesnt necessarily preclude the pivot or the Right Hip from starting the entire chain of events. This is great for a person employing a swing away as it establishes CF right off the start. A "free wheeling" swing back that for me goes nicely with a Lagging Takeaway on full shots. I personally like to feel that the Pivot or Right Hip gets the club moving back the first couple of inches. Is this Pivot to Hands? I say no! Not if I then employ an RFT (fanning and pickup) and Trace a Straight Line Base Line. Pivot to Hands would have the Hands following the Shoulders in their direction," always under plane". I have the Hands and Shoulders going their separate ways.

This is just me however, you could pre clear the Right Hip and then use a "carry back" with the RFT, but I like to set up a little CF early on even though Im mainly Hitting these days.

"The body is a rotor, the arms are it's blades" and so ideally for a golfing machine anyways you must turn the Rotor to turn the Blades. CF.

Daryti,

Please don't take my "feel" as truth, but I am curious to hear O.B.'s thoughts on what I "feel."

I have become a hitter as well, and really believe in and strive for the Magic Of The Right Forearm and educated hands controlling my swing...

I have found that I need the backstroke and cocking of the left hand to be totally controlled by my right elbow. If I try to add a little more wrist cock with my left wrist, my right hand cocks along with it rather than bending as Homer Kelley taught us. :nono:

My left wrist definitely doesn't set as much as it used to using this method. Am I working along the proper lines, or am I costing myself some speed by not using #2 to it's fullest?

Thanks,
Kevin

Thanks for asking Kev but WTF do I know.

Hey my daughter told me a story last night about a Dad who was looking over his daughters shoulder as she was texting and asked "Sweetie Pie, what does WTF mean?" "Oh" said the little girl. " It means With Thanks From". The next day this dad started signing all of his emails at work with; " WTF Frank".

Luke has said that although #2 is primarily a Swingers consideration the delayed hit, small pulley wheel is still vital to a Hitter seeking distance. To me this means we Hitters still need some #2 Accumulation , Storage and Release.

I used to struggle with getting enough #2 angle, perhaps due to a faulty plane to my left hand wrist cock. When I first started with TGM I'd think about #2 cocking and all manner of left sided things , swivel, whatever, back when I was Swinging. When I moved to Hitting it was a great relief and simplification of things to just concern myself with the right side. Taking a right hand frozen in its impact fix position to right shoulder high say. The funny thing was I'd get to the same place at Top , the same position but with less going on in my head and my left hand wrist cock was pretty good too even though I didnt think about it.

Now I view Swinging and Hitting as both being Right Sided deals. Ive also realized with the help of Yoda and Luke that Hitting is not necessarily "wooden" or stiff wristed. Not every Hitter looks like Arnie for instance, some have down right beautiful motions. "Pretty Hitting" if you will although perhaps this sounds kind of metrosexual or something.

So to answer your question, Id say; Yes, you're on the right track. Keep working on the Magic of the Right Forearm. The Right Elbow cocks the Left Wrist. I'd also stay away from cocking the left wrist with the left wrist. If you feel like you're losing distance and not getting all you could out of your swing take a look at your #2 angle and the manner in which loads and releases. Find a way to get a smaller pulley wheel. I personally found that I got a little stiff in the wrists when I started Hitting which blocked my left wrist cock and caused me to Release it too quickly. I've adopted some swingers components now which seem to really help in this regard. A lagging takeaway, float loading. Im "free wheeling" but using a Right Arm Throw, most days anyways. Startdown Waggles, Hip Slide help you to get the Right Elbow deep before Release. Firm grip , loose wrists. This is the stuff I work on right now.

Thanks for the help with picking out my driver. That Titleist has one hot face on it.

Regards
Ob

PS Its below zero up here but Im getting on my foul weather gear and going golfing on some frozen greens.

O.B.

WOW, great answer, and exactly what I was looking for in the way of help. Stay the course!

BTW, WTF, YOU KNOW A LOT MY FRIEND!!!

Thanks Man,
Kevin

Thanks Kev

I was thinking about all this as I was playing today. I want to add that for anyone who is reading this and just embarking on this crazy journey, this stuff Im talking about here is what works for me. It isnt 12-1 or 12-2 exactly. In the past I have had very, very good games where I was pretty close to 12-1. You can hit it pretty darn far with a sweep release, bigger pulley wheel even. To each their own, of course but Homer wanted us all to start at 12-1 or 12-2 and so we should. Heck I could end up back there for all I know.

My deal was I had a misunderstanding about the role of the Pivot in Hitting. I let it wilt a bit and lost the proper ground/up Downswing Sequence of 6-M-1 on occasion. Its easy to run out of right arm when that happens and so I'd go back and forth on Hitting vs Swinging. When my sequence was good Hitting was easy, when my pivot stalled all hell would break loose. I knew it had something to do with running out of right arm and so I knew I had to deliver a bent right arm to release better with the right shoulder which meant I had to slide my hips etc etc etc......... I reengineered my way backwards until I eventually realized what my problem was. 6-M-1 is just as true for Hitters as it is for Swingers. We all need a Pivot and a proper Downswing Sequence.

Homer did say "lag, in all its forms" , is the secret. I think he was referring to the downswing sequence and the lag and drag of its various component parts, be you Hitting or Swinging. Im talking Major Basic Strokes here of course.