Plane Truth
 

Take a deep breath. Relax. Breath in….Breath out. :)

Maybe it’s time to think about not thinking so much about the Plane and think more about the Plane Line.

INCLINED PLANE: Golf – The through-the-waist “Plane of Rotation” of the Clubshaft as established during the Address Routine.

The Concept of “Plane” as a Flat Surface that frames the Golfer has led most Golfers to waste countless hours futilely trying to lay and keep the Clubshaft against its surface on the Backstroke and Downstroke.

Maybe Mythbusting is in-order.

Yes Daryl -time for a "shift" in thinking!

The Inclined Angle of a Plane varies with its reference point. The #3 PP should follow this Inclined angle while tracing the base line of the Inclined Angle.

Who thinks that the Clubshaft should lay Perfectly Flat on the Plane throughout the Swing?

How many think that the Clubshaft will be off by a few degrees if we comply with the Left Arm Flying Wedge?

I have not seen any video of someone keeping the shaft on plane throughout the swing. There is always a shift. If you stand in a Homer Kelley type plane board you would understand why or why not.

Actually the line formed from the grip to the sweetspot should lay on the plane. Not the shaft.

Plane
 

Keen observation. It would be grip to sweetspot.

I think Mark O'Meara used to come pretty close to on plane all the time. Of course, I have not seen the Bucket's move in person so there may be better models for us to consider.

UPP in snowy but melting Ohio

I thought that the clubshaft only lies against that specific inclined plane (either hand plane or elbow plane) when the hands are below waist level. When the hands, and therefore clubshaft, are above waist level, they are usually moving along a different inclined plane - usually somewhere between the elbow plane and the turned shoulder plane depending on the degree of plane shift. I therefore thought that the idea of the clubshaft lying flat against the inclined plane as only applying to a small section of the clubshaft swingarc - when it is within about 18" of the ball. Am I wrong to think in that manner?

Jeff.

Agreed. Of the plane and plane line, I believe compliance with the plane line to be more important. However, they are both very important in that the club must be making contact with the ball while on its correct shaft plane to prevent a toe up or toe down strike.

There are many options for plane shifts beyond the shaft plane interval. The greats of golf have demonstrated a wide variety. A plane board could be custom fitted with hydraulics levers and a computer to correctly change the plane boards angle for any golfers selected shift pattern. The ideal results would still see the golf club (both head and grip end) tracing the plane line from horizon to horizon. Or so I believe right now anyways.

Plane Shifts and the Plane Line
 

The Sweetspot is always swinging on a Plane. It may not be the Plane the golfer wants it on -- unintentional Twists and Loops abound -- or, even the Plane he thinks it's on ("I feel no shifts at all." -- Jim Furyk). Nevertheless, it's always on some Plane or other. In fact, its motion defines the Plane being employed.

With the Turning Shoulder Plane (10-6-D), for example, the Loading Action is in a Vertical Plane (and not an Inclined Plane). For the most part, though, the ideal is to play 'Inclined Plane Golf'. In which case, the Club usually shifts almost vertically during the Backstroke from an Elbow Plane at Address to one of the Shoulder Planes (Turned or Squared) at the Top. This is defined as the Single Shift (10-7-B). A Double Shift (10-7-C) occurs when the Club returns to its original Plane Angle during the Downstroke.

At all times, however, with or without a Plane Shift, the ideal is to maintain "a straight line relationship to a straight line" (2-N-0). In other words, the Clubshaft -- one end or the other per 1-L-#6 -- continues to point at the Baseline of the Plane. [Note: Though the Inclined Plane concept always references the Sweetspot Plane unless otherwise noted, the Clubshaft Plane (the visible) is used as the Visual Equivalent (2-F) of the Sweetspot Plane (the invisible). In fact, they are indeed one and the same as the Clubshaft rotates about the Sweetspot during the Backstroke, Downstroke and Follow-Through, thus causing the Clubshaft and Clubface to lay on the same Plane.]

So, no matter what Plane or Planes are employed, always remember:

"Changing the Plane Angle has no effect on the Plane Line" (1-L-#18 ).

Sweet!
 

Another cut and paster!

Furyk, when viewed from the perspective of the hands and their travel, has very little/no shift. A big part of the reason he is so accurate and consistent.

IMO - too much emphasis is placed on the the shaft's travel, and it causes great confusion re: planes and 'shifts'.

The hands, and their path, are much more telling of what 'on plane' really means.

Monitor the hands.

I couldn't agree more.:)

Bucket is on the list!
 

If my thinking is oriented around establishing...or ideally... maintaining an in-line relationship between the shaft (proxi-sweetspot) and my right forearm... am I on track? I am almost to the point where I have just about substituted the clubface with my FLV left wrist...the clubhead with my BLV right wrist and the shaft with my right forearm. What I have to focus on the most at this stage is my right forearm wedge staying intact. If I fan correctly it is a beautiful thing!

A little more than a year into THIS, the game has taken on a sweet simplicity. I now count all the hair pulling and gnashing of teeth as joy! My wife says that I am more at peace with myself! :eyes: Golf too is a knowable, albeit complex, quantity.

I got me a left hand, a right hand, a forearm and a pivot that does what it is told...let's play G.O.L.F!

Question about elbow postions and forearm fanning. Is pitch more conducive to fanning than punch?

I'm looking forward to the lreease of the Blake/Trolio collaboration. I enjoyed the smackerel...the dedication to "my teacher, Homer Kelley" plucked on my one heart string.

Saturday morning musing

Not to sound too "schmultsy" but I "know" Homer Kelley primarily through the book, but especially through Lynn's narrative and personal anecdotes. I understand the loyalty he attracted, not cultic sycophance as cynics suggest, but rather awe for his selfless desire to assist others. Although I never had the pleasure of his company...I have learned a great deal from him...after my college coach, I consider HK my most important golfing influence. 4 of the top 5 have been added since my discovery of TGM! No need to rank 'em all but Lynn is there...and can you believe...BUCKET...another selfless seeker.

Truth Capsule
 

That statement shows a lot of golfing wisdom, Okie, and would have made Homer Kelley smile.

Thanks!

:salut:

Fan For Power
 

The Right Elbow fans with both Pitch and Punch. Of the Major Basic Strokes (10-3-A/B/C), only the ponderous Push keeps the Hands between the Elbow and the Ball.

Did you mean STINKER?

The Clap
 

Yeah...stinker...that is what I meant!

Yoda...you just made my day! Thanks for the elbow response. While alternating from pitch to punch in the mirror this morning (I was sort of brushing my teeth with my left hand) it got me thinking :

Pitch - the elbow is in front of the right hip. does this put the elbow slightly to the left (towards the belt buckle?)
Punch - the elbow is to the side of the right hip, placing the elbow further right of the right hip when compared to pitch?

It seems as if it is anatomically "easier" to fan when the joint around which the motion occurs is closer to the center of the body. I am trying to ascertain if this is "codswallop", a personal "seems as if", or universally true.

Are elbow positions a spectrum deal? Pitch on one end...and push on the other? I know you can and must fan from punch...but if you were going to teach a beginner right forearm fanning would it be easier to start from pitch?

I love to hit...although I generally swing. one of my preferences for swinging is that I "feel" (pardon) more adept at fanning from pitch. I just finished clapping from both pitch and punch. My wife is shaking her head with mock exasperation! Actually, I found it easier to fan clap from punch. Crud...let me go check Dianne out...again!

Experiment with Right Elbow location EVERYWHERE in the stroke. Homer said the Right Elbow HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE (at all times right?). He also siad he'd build his swing around the right elbow.

Soooooooo . . . Pitch Punch Push are basically thought about around "Delivery" . . . but try getting "pitchy" on your backstroke and see what happens.

Notice how at Top the Right Elbow Location in space can impact the Plane Angle . . . Plane Shifts . . . .

Experiment with Right Elbow Location (and Left Elbow too) ThROUGH THE BALL. Notice how it Impacts the Location of the Clubshaft (amount of lean and amount that the handle is raised or lowered).

Pay attention to how your right elbow moves in space . . . Is it moving out and away from you? Is it moving in an "arc" like trajectory around our rib cage?

Notice how the Right Elbow motion and location also impacts the angle your shoulder turn on . . . which is basically a Hand Path deal. Hand Path and the resulting Elbow Location is HUGE . . . impacts lots of areas in the stroke.

pitch/punch
 

"Pay attention to how your right elbow moves in space . . . Is it moving out and away from you? Is it moving in an "arc" like trajectory around our rib cage? " Tighty-Whitey strikes again!

I agree with you...like...totally...dude! If the right forearm is going to operate efficiently you gotta get a homer device on the elbow. Let me change the question a bit...cause I'm confusing my own self y'all. Is forearm fanning the exact same movement from pitch to punch? I get that both must fan. but am I hitting the crack pipe by thinking that it is easier from pitch, than from punch? Like I said before I enjoy hitting, but I favor swinging largely because I feel like I can fan "better" from pitch. I am looking for the mechanical hook on which to hang my feelings...otherwise I will simply hang 'em dead. Thereby enforcing a promise made I made to myself! I said "Okie...what ever you do you gotta be able to verify it with a sound mechanic, that way it is concrete and not the ethereal pixie dust of yet another feel-based swing tip that will not see the dawn of a another useful day." Or something like that... By all means put me in my place...afterall it is where I belong!

Right elbow and lag loading
 

If lag is the secret of G.O.L.F.

then understanding lag loading is the key to the secret...

Let the manner in which you establish lag pressure be the determinant of your right elbow/forearm position....

Once you have found the most efficient alignment for you right elbow/forearm at lag pressure loading.... then make sure that it is in a sensible position at all other sections of the swing...so you have less compensations to make.

If you do this then you find that pitch is most naturally suited to swingers who drag load and have sequenced release...

punch is most naturally to drive load and simultaneous release.

So start with your loading procedure and fit your right forearm to that...

right forearm pointing at the plane line at impact fix
 

With impact fix.... is the plane on which the right forearm lies at address, the plane of the sweetspot motion ?

There is only ONE British Bulldog!
 

Makes puuurfect sense. Thanks Winston!

I'll have a go!
 

As I understand it the pressure points that are on the aft side of the club (#1, #2 and major domo #3) all are on a line extending to the sweetspot. In essence you are sensing the sweetspot with the pressure in your hands, particularly #3. In order for those to be correctly aligned, the forearm must have the proper relationship with the shaft (a proxi for the sweetspot.) The right forearm is now an on-plane force...a support mechanism for the sweetspot...otherwise the only "support" it has is the inadequacy of the left wrist with it's inevitable collapse! Helpful?

Well, I can understand that you need the right forearm inline, as the structure on plane, to successfully support or absorb impact resistante. Otherwise, with a "hang your arms naturally" right forearm alignment, when your pp3 meets exactly opposed forces to the direction of the motion (desaccelerating forces like impact, the ground), then what would happen is you experience an opening like, rotation of your right arm (right wrist and right forearm rotate, turn clockwise).

That is how I think about it now, after long seasons of incubating these concepts, what I described is how I see it.

Some readers may have more understanding of the golfing machine, so if I got it right or wrong , I would be glad to receive comments or what chapters of the yellow book I need to read carefully.



Regarding to the question I made before in the previous post, I was wondering if, the squared shoulder plane, the turned shoulder plane, the elbow shoulder plane, are all these planes are established by the right forearm angle of inclination ? If the right arm is straight, you have a square shoulder plane. If the right arm is a bit bent, then you would have a turned shoulder plane if you stop turning the shoulders when your right shoulder reaches the extension of your right forearm.

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