Ben Doyle's How To Build A G.O.L.F. Game
 

have any of you guys seen this video, and if so what are your thoughts. The only other quasi TGM related video's I have are Mike Benders, and Brian's Flipper video. Still anxiously waiting for Lynn and VJ's production.....

Thanks

Doyles video
 

I am a former Doyle student. I have the orginal rougher version and the newer little more polished version. In the first his phone goes off during the video and he goes over to the bush in which it is located to answer it! Both are priceless and He goes thru the components without prompts demonstrating them all. I think it is priceless, a collectors item and really helpful in understanding the yellow book. It is filmed on the range at Quail Lodge in Carmel and really homemade. Ben is still there teaching everyday and is now teaming up with Bobby Clampett to teach Impact Zone Classes. Bobby is out there a lot these days. It also will help you understand the left coast TGM folks Greg McHatton and Bobby Schaeffer. While Lynn teaches details with words and action, Ben is quite good with his demos. They are very complimentary.

David,

I saw his swing on Youtube and its amazing. Beautiful long divot in front of the ball. So for a newbie the video is good?

Thanks

Mr Doyle DVDs
 

It is me who posted Ben Doyle 's swing on Utube. It is a shape of tribute to him, having learning so much from his DVDs. It is really complementary of Mr Kelley's book and the education which we can receive on this site. I get no royalties :crybaby: but I can advise you to buy Ben's DVDs.

I would sell mine, wish I hadn't purchased it. I've learned A LOT MORE from the videos on this site, McHatton's DVDs, and the Stack and Tilt DVDs.

Ben doesn't teach a golf stroke on the video- mine is VHS- he explains the vocabulary and TGM chapters. I was a nice buy a few years ago but I'm a firm believer in our videos.
If you want- rent a lesson tape from Ben. you get to keep it for a while and he teaches his stroke pattern on it. 50 bucks a tape for 2 months.

Going back to your roots...
 

Great to hear Bobby is working with Ben again!!!

DG

ok guys, thanks for your responses. i'll kick it around....

A boat at the bottom of the ocean is not a boat! - Ben Doyle
 

I got me one of those a while back. It is especially good if your like a double plane shift with super-snappy snap releases! That is not a criticism, just that like many teachers Mr. Doyles has a personal preference. My video has him going through the 24 components. Of course, what was bit misleading (due to my own ignorance) was that there was not much in the way of the many variations. Obviously covering the samenesses as well as the variations is not realistic! So...my initial stab at TGM was to attempt Mr. Doyle's preferred pattern. Yoda introduced me to "hitting." Hitting helped me understand TGM's "Dirty Little Secret" per Yoda, namely right arm participation. I eventually came back to swinging. When I understood the passive role of the right arm in swinging what Mr. Doyle made better sense to me.

I, too, have Ben's video which needs watching as carefully as The Book needs to be read.

Like The Book, it is not a simple "how to do" but more an illustration of the concepts involved when applying the 24 components etc.. In this respect it is a visual confirmation of what we should have in our minds eye having read The Book.

Like The Book it is a form of reference and, as such, well worth the $.

Anyone got Ben's mat? And, if so, what do you think of its usefulness?

he now sells a desk top version of the mat. I never thought it was great for swinging on top of it, but it is loaded with Doyle wisdow that now can be had for a third of the price.

Thanks 6b.

I have the DVD you are talking about. Its really interesting, the beginning of it is hilarious, you think "Who the hell is this eccentric old guy?"

After that, its just great although the lack f follow through is disconcerting.

Its not cheap but Ben actually breaks down where the money goes at the end of it. He has scholarships and contributions and all sorts.

I agree 100 %. It is not a method, nor is The Book.
In this way it brings you something different of the DVDs of McH or S&T.
I bought the desk mat at the same time as DVD. It is a very practical tool which summarizes Mr Doyle' s education, in particular the "Facts and illusions" concept. It is a usefull reminder, that can be easily consulted all the time without having to reread the DVD too often.

weird he doesnt get into the follow through. It appears he uses a pretty aggressive full roll, which I guesss would be neccessary w/ that late release.

Thanks again guys for all the responses.....

I hate to hate on Ben Doyle. He seems like a nice dude and I'm sure he's a great teacher. After I purchased the book . . . read it . . . didn't get it . . . I ordered this video . . . unfortunately.

TOTALLY SCREWED UP MY GOLF GAME. This may not be Ben's fault. I don't think you can learn golf via a video . . . or at least not this video. There are some definite nuggets . . . BUT very problematic due to the rapidly closing face which is largely due to the head hanging back also resulting in the left wrist becoming the center of the stroke . .. also the navel seeking right elbow doesn't work so good either because you don't release #4 and come in way to shallow and from the inside.

A fine pattern if you have mutant level hand eye coordination or like to hit it really low and don't care where the ball goes.

Left o' Left
 

I can relate to this...and I do not need help hitting it left! What got me good and proper was focusing on my left shoulder, as in moving it up to get the right shoulder down. Knowing what I know now, would have helped me navigate his presentation a lot better...there is loads of good info there. He introduced me to the 24 components...just not enough of the variations.

Don't hate Ben
 

Bobby Clampett says in his book "Impact Zone" nothing Ben ever told me was untrue !. Ben was the FIRST to accept Homer's stuff. He has many success stories. Everyone learns differently(visual, auditory or kinestetic).
For many of us that is why this forum and its founder are so meaningful to us as individuals. I figure the naysayers just communicate differently.

Hate?
 

No hate just a recognition that Mr. Doyle's preferred pattern is not for everyone. A fact that I am sure he would state himself. Like Homer Kelley I believe that seperate identities should be maintained...kinda like between love and hate! :laughing9 I am very proud of the fact that my 6th and 7th editions bear Mr. Doyle's signature. :salut:

very good post

Give Ben some credit- he teaches the same pattern to everyone. His lesson to Elkington or Clampett is the same lesson a blue hair lady gets as a walk up. Ben believes in his stroke pattern - something most GC instructors CAN'T say. Ben said he shots for a Marsarati but will settle for a Cadillac. He give you the machine parts- you as the student learn from the assembly.

Believe me- a hour or so with Ben in the bunker will make anyone and EVERYONE more principled in the Imperatives then using any training aid invented for a year or getting a lesson from an instructor outside the TGM golf world.

Ben's daughter proof read Homer's text for several editions, so Ben had a unique advantage into Kelley's thoughts.

A Well Doyled Machine
 

very good post

Excellent Post.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

Blake and Doyle
 

Been sitting on this waiting for a good time to spring it on you guys. Here is Yoda and Ben speaking Lag with no words (more or less). Check out the left wrist at impact- I have been working on this all week.

One of Ben's bg things- as if he has any minor things- is that the hands and therefor the clubhead does NOT come back or recoil after impact. He said he would move in with you and give you lessons for a year if you ever caught him doing that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3x_AzWlG-A


Rave on guys and enjoy.

A Doyle Well
 

Nice job Mike. Thanks for all you on this site. Are you sure that you are a Yankee fan :confused1 ???

great video
 

great post 6bmike!!. Ben would really get on you if you bounced back or if any of your waggles or other motions were wrong. My wife and I spent over an hour in a bunker hitting the "great wall of china" in all four directions in relation to the camera. I hit a lot of sand on and into his camera. It was drizzling rain and we were in rain suits(Ben was bareheaded) and I told Ben his camera would short out - and it did.. I have so many fond memories, Shoot, HOLD and rest, don't rake those balls it is a new grip, new alignment, new posture for every shot, and every morning he would walk out to the range and hop into the release position which for him was elbow deep in front of hip and say COURAGE etc etc etc. I now realize the importance of everything he said. Combined Ben's stuff and Lynn's precise instruction and you can't go wrong.

I bleed pinstripes.

My last stadium game is this Thursday- I'm going to miss that place.


btw- Lynn and Ben were talking about pivot lag as it starts out. I was just a fly on the golf bag watching two legends talk machine.

new grip, new alignment, new posture for every shot- most golfers lack this. Give each stroke a fighting chance- they will count each one toward your score.

Leavin' On A Jet Plane
 

Thanks for this memory, Mike. I appreciate it!

Ben Doyle taught every day during our school at Woodmont CC (just north of Atlanta) and actually spent four nights in my home. At about 5 a.m. the Monday morning after, I found him clothed in a white suit rolling two suitcases down a steep stair. He accepted my help, but I have no doubt he would have done quite well without it.

Then, after our goodbyes, it was out to his waiting car, and off he went into the night. A plane was waiting, and he had business 3,000 miles away.

Ben was 72-years-old at the time. In his own words: "Even par."

Legends aren't born . . . they are made.

And in the ephemeral world of golf instruction, Ben Doyle has made his own.

:salut:

Glad I could bring back the good memories. I've wanted to share that clip for a while now and was waiting for a spot to post it.

And remember, Ben taught in the hot bunker every day and wouldn't leave if someone wanted to go in with him. Ben taught facts & illusions anywhere there was a straight line- like concrete slabs on cart paths. And then he picked up every mat and training aid he hauled with him at the end of the day. And taught at the restaurants with salt shakers.


Here are a few pics- check out Ben's shirt logo- not many of them around.

and humility is the anteroom of all the perfections.

The excellence does not exist without humanism. Thank you so much to share these images and these memories.

Yankee Fan
 

Mike is a great Yankee Fan in addition to doing great work on this site. I will miss the Stadium as well. My best memory will always be meeting The Mick many times at the Stadium. Gave him a dozen golf balls for his birthday one year in the 1980's.

Nice video of Yoda and Ben. When doing this drill and hiting balls, make sure you "close the door" with that flat left wrist.

:golf:

Swing,
good point, Im trying to get to the point of closing the door(finish swivel?) w/ a flat left wrist WITHOUT FLIPPING....aiming point concentration, and bringing that left shoulder up/rt shoulder down is helping.

In my Ernie book, How to Build a Classic Golf Swing, he is doing this, the problem I have is concentrating on this move and forgetting about the pivot delivering this move, you know what happens then... body stops, flip left :crybaby:

Left Shoulder
 

TGM makes no reference to the left shoulder. As I stated before, prior to a better understanding I focused a great deal on the left shoulder moving up and the right shoulder going down in order to achieve the deep pitch elbow position. what that did not help me do was tilt my axis to avoid the collision that never will occur, namely the right elbow and right hip. Perhaps the left shoulder is a feels as if, but HK took special care to reference the importance of the right shoulder. Again, I am not taking pot shots at Mr. Doyle, just sharing a mistake that I made using (most likely incorrectly) something that he emphasizes i.e. to bring the hands down by raising the left shoulder etc.

My take
 

At the time I got interested in TGM, I could only get hold of two sources of information: The Yellow Book and Bens tape. I tried to read the book, but had a hard time getting through. Then I got Bens video. It served me greatly, first and foremost as an overview of the Yellow Book. I can't say the video really helped my swing (I do not expect that from videos), but it made it many, many times easier to read the book.

Personally I'd recommend Bens video to anyone who wants to begin studying TGM. The video is not all you need, but if you are new to TGM it may serve you well, as an introduction.

thanks Metallion.... I appreciate your take on Ben's video and how it relates to learning TGM