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-   -   Left arm rotary movement in the backstroke (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5572)

Jeff 04-22-2008 10:50 AM
Left arm rotary movement in the backstroke
 
During a swinger's backstroke left arm action, the left arm rotates clockwise so that an imaginary watchface on the left wrist would face the target at address, but eventually end up facing skywards at the top of the backstroke. I can imagine the left arm rotation i) occurring gradually throughout the backstroke, or ii) there can be a start-up swivel action that causes the imaginary watchface to face the ball-target line at the end of the takeaway (or be parallel to the inclined plane), followed by a more gradual left arm rotation during the remainder of the backstroke. Does it really matter which technique is used considering that the left arm must eventually have rotated to the same degree by the top of the backstroke?

golfbulldog 04-22-2008 03:42 PM
mechanically it does not matter when it rotates on the backswing...but homer was into having similar feels on the backswing and downswing...

And as Homer was pretty prescriptive about a swinger using a sequenced release...then you can match that with a similar start up swivel feel.

EdZ 04-27-2008 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 52082)
During a swinger's backstroke left arm action, the left arm rotates clockwise so that an imaginary watchface on the left wrist would face the target at address, but eventually end up facing skywards at the top of the backstroke. I can imagine the left arm rotation i) occurring gradually throughout the backstroke, or ii) there can be a start-up swivel action that causes the imaginary watchface to face the ball-target line at the end of the takeaway (or be parallel to the inclined plane), followed by a more gradual left arm rotation during the remainder of the backstroke. Does it really matter which technique is used considering that the left arm must eventually have rotated to the same degree by the top of the backstroke?
This is ties into both right elbow position, and pivot motion (core trunk rotation). The key thing to keep in mind is that allowing that rotation is far better than 'making' it happen in my view.

If you delay the pivot, you'll feel more initial rotation (and more pitch elbow feeling), if you allow the pivot to move with the 'triangle', you'll feel less rotation, and tend to 'feel' more towards punch elbow. Hip action and knee action are also related.

labrador 04-29-2008 05:08 AM
Elbow position
 
Could You guys please explain the difference between the punch elbow and pitch elbow postions and what they signify?
I have difficulties in translating these terms into their anatomical correlates.

rwh 04-29-2008 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by labrador (Post 52167)
Could You guys please explain the difference between the punch elbow and pitch elbow postions and what they signify?
I have difficulties in translating these terms into their anatomical correlates.
The punch elbow is at the side of the right hip and is commonly associated with Hitting. The pitch elbow is in front of the right hip and is commonly associated with swinging.

Mathew 05-12-2008 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 52082)
During a swinger's backstroke left arm action, the left arm rotates clockwise so that an imaginary watchface on the left wrist would face the target at address, but eventually end up facing skywards at the top of the backstroke. I can imagine the left arm rotation i) occurring gradually throughout the backstroke, or ii) there can be a start-up swivel action that causes the imaginary watchface to face the ball-target line at the end of the takeaway (or be parallel to the inclined plane), followed by a more gradual left arm rotation during the remainder of the backstroke. Does it really matter which technique is used considering that the left arm must eventually have rotated to the same degree by the top of the backstroke?
Basically the hands turn to the plane on the backstroke so if there was a book between your hands, you would show the thin side of that book to someone watching you from a side on or down the line view. They always should turn to a pure backwards direction on the backstroke.

Now as to the 'rate' of loading. I would discourage you from turning the hand too quickly from startup aka Tomasello due to the fact that by turning the hands straight away as he teaches - 'anatomically' your left hand is turning then rolling and then turning again during the backstroke due to how the shoulder turn effect as transports and changes the relationship of the power package to the plane line. Whilst it can be done, ideally you want to have it happen a little later into your turn so that it becomes a pure 'anatomical' turning motion. This is why alot of players who turn to the plane very quickly oftentimes get off and underplane.

Yoda 05-12-2008 09:15 PM
Backstroke Swivel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew (Post 52432)

Basically the hands turn to the plane on the backstroke so if there was a book between your hands, you would show the thin side of that book to someone watching you from a side on or down the line view. They always should turn to a pure backwards direction on the backstroke.

Now as to the 'rate' of loading. I would discourage you from turning the hand too quickly from startup aka Tomasello due to the fact that by turning the hands straight away as he teaches - 'anatomically' your left hand is turning then rolling and then turning again during the backstroke due to how the shoulder turn effect as transports and changes the relationship of the power package to the plane line. Whilst it can be done, ideally you want to have it happen a little later into your turn so that it becomes a pure 'anatomical' turning motion. This is why alot of players who turn to the plane very quickly oftentimes get off and underplane.
Great post, Mathew.

I agree 100 percent.

The Swinger with his Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) Swivels -- a true rotation (Hand Motion versus Arm Motion) -- during the Backstroke. This action is usually the bridge from Start-Up to Backstroke (and not earlier). This Backstroke Swivel mirrors the Finish Swivel, the bridge between the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position) and Finish.

Thanks!

:salut:

dodger 06-11-2008 10:42 AM
If you trace the plane line with the right forearm while swiveling, will this prevent the club from going underplane? When you swivel is a major issue for me, I tend to do it to early, which results in a major underplane move. I assume magic of the right forearm will prevent the club from going too flat, correct?

coolstv88 06-21-2008 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger (Post 53491)
If you trace the plane line with the right forearm while swiveling, will this prevent the club from going underplane? When you swivel is a major issue for me, I tend to do it to early, which results in a major underplane move. I assume magic of the right forearm will prevent the club from going too flat, correct?


Yes that is true, in another thred about the magic of the RF there is somthing to the tune of - Fan it, FAn it as hard as you can, as long as your on plane theres no way you can fan it hard enough- or something to that tune and i found it very succesfull gets club in a great possiton as long as i keep the club on plane, try it while tracing a low bench or a coffe table with a golf club to get an acurate feeling but the club can not go to far open as long as you are tracing

Yoda 06-22-2008 12:47 AM
Hands Are Clamps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger (Post 53491)

When you swivel is a major issue for me. I tend to do it too early, which results in a major underplane move. I assume magic of the right forearm will prevent the club from going too flat, correct?

Just remember:

The Hands are Clamps.

They do not produce Power. Instead, they exist to connect the Club to the Arms and control the Clubface alignments.

They move only in concert with the Body (Pivot) and the Arms.

As the Body turns and the Arms swing into the Backstroke, the Hands naturally Turn to Plane.

If they don't, you are Steering.

:)


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