Geometry of the Circle
 

Below are Full-Scale illustrations of the "Geometry of the Circle". Driver with the Ball played 3 inches aft of Low-Point; Wedge with the Ball played 3 inches aft of Low-Point; and a Wedge with the Ball played 6 inches aft of Low-Point.

Of interest is that when the Ball is played 6 inches aft of Low-Point (about the Left ear) with a wedge, the divot would be almost excessive. Use a Tee.

For O.B. Left.....

If Separation Occurs at Low-Point, then, without a Tee, the Club would strike the ground before Impact.

Nice drawings.

I guess there are at least one or two ways to hitting a low wedge without digging deep. Anyone care to outline them?

double rainbow
 

Awesome drawings D, really.

My thoughts:

-Seeing these drawings to scale is very interesting isnt it. Homer's drawings were not to scale Im thinking for illustrative purposes maybe?

- I've wondered about playing the ball back with a wedge....6 inches back doesnt seem excessive to my mind, but without coming up prematurely that implies a 12" inch divot doesnt it. I could see that on super soft , wet soggy turf maybe but not otherwise. So do we not play it that far back, come up early or perhaps deflect out of , off the tera firma? I dunno.

-you are assuming the low point plane line to be defined by the sweetspot rather than the bottom of the club. It doesnt change your findings at all but it would illustrate the depth the clubhead would descend to beneath the ground at low point for balls played back in the stance and determine the length of divot too, I think.

-I wished you'd posted this in my thread but maybe its run it course anyways.............. here's whats bugging me. Homer in his drawing 2-C-1-3 drew the Angle of Approach as straight line from impact to separation. Separation appearing to be at low point. But in 2-J-3 he describes in words, the Angle as running from Impact to Low Point. So taking him on his words of 2-J-3, how would drawing 2-C-1-3 change if separation is back of low point, as it often is? The LOC will not be both pointing at the hole and pointing down the Arc of Approach for instance as the Arc will be out to the right. The Arc and the Angle will not intersect at Separation. What does it all mean?

We need a new 2-C-1-3 for balls back in the stance.

Great stuff D thanks

Nice drawings.

A non-important question.

All being equal in the 2 wedges drawings. Would not impact point on the balls be different due to ball placement?

I think I see a difference but not sure. And is that measurable?

With a wedge, the divot is longer but that is what a clubs design bounce is for - stopping the entire hole to China.

1. Homers Drawings were extended to Low-Point for Illustrative purposes (see above quote).

2. We can move this thread to your thread if you like.

3. Dear O.B. Left; The Clubface is hooked to divert forces from going out to right field.

But you brought up 2 very Important Points.

The Angle of Approach is "Plane Angle" from the Impact Point to Low-Point and it should be represented with a "Looking Down" Drawing as in 2-C-1 #3. If you Draw the "Angle of Approach" in a Down-the-Line-View, as in 2-C-1#1, it "is" the Sweetspot Plane Angle - i.e. it is lying flat against the Sweetspot Plane. Therefore it is always intersecting. See the Illustration below. The Sweetspot Plane "is" the Angle of Approach: the Green Line




The 2nd Point is that the "Point of Impact and the Point of Separation" must be the same.

Imagine this, as sickening as it is......

12 Piece Bucket is on his first date. He tries to kiss her good night. He puts his hands on the side of her head like a clamp to stop her from pulling away (he learned from experience). So that as much and often as she struggles, his lips will touch hers and at separation his lips will still be touching hers when he lets go. Now imagine if, during her struggle, her head rotated up the face of the inclined striker. At separation, his lips would be touching her "forehead" (lob shot). That's why we must "Hinge" through the Impact Interval. We must have Impact Point and Separation Point, the same point on the Ball. We do not want the ball to Roll up the face of the Inclined Striker. This is for Maximum Compression. See the quote below.

Bold by Daryl

So, I think that we should tell the "D Plane" people that their goal is to make the ball "ROLL" up the Clubface as much as possible to keep the spin axis horizontal to the ground thereby eliminating side-spin and increasing backspin for more lift and carry. Then hit up with the Driver and learn to hit up with the wedges too.

Yes, they are significantly different, but full scale drawings aren't able to show how different they actually are. I could make the drawings ten-times larger than full scale and take some accurate measurements. Anyway, as the Ball is moved farther away from Low-Point, the Ball is moved Up-Plane. But we hit the ball on the ground, so the illustrations are adjusted for this by Lowering the Ball down to the Ground. Compare the Height of Low Point above the ground to see a more dramatic difference.

China ?
 

I am confused. All of us in the states know that if you dig down into the earth forever you end up in China, but I didn't think if Australians did the same thing they would end up there. I am going to find a globe and figure that out for golfguru.
And I think you got it confused with bucket. He is so cute that the girl would be holding his head not the reverse.!

What makes you think that when I used the word girl that I was speaking of a human being? :)

Agreed, to draw them to scale often makes the geometry's differences look minute and therefor insignificant. I think that though it may appear to be minute to our eyes, it is anything but insignificant to the ball and therefor to the golfer. The impact interval is way smaller than illustrated but......its effects upon the ball are profound.

Naw, you're on a roll here, mine turned into something else, plus as a general rule I dont wish to contribute to any thread that would have me as a contributor.

Which raises the matter of ball flight. 2-C-1-#3 is a straight shot Id imagine? Our D plane friends can help us out here maybe until we're up to speed. But if we move the ball back and square the face to the hole .......draw shot that starts straight and curves left id imagine.

D, did you do that drawing of 2-C-1 #1 Nice reproduction with colour too. Are you interested in trying 2-C-1-#3 but with the ball back of low point? If so it'd be nice to include a plane line and its direction vis a vis the target.

Angle of Approach Delivery Line , 2-J-3 is hard on the head. Im thinking the Angle of Approach is a visual from the golfers perspective of the clubhead blur. So 2-C-1-#3, Im thinking is not a birds eye, plan view but a golfers p.o.v. , Homer did say "looking down", "player's view". These words were carefully crafted but often overlooked. You could say its the golfers view of the Sweetspot on the clufbace burr, but its not one and the same as the Sweetspot Plane Id say unless the Sweetspot plane is elevated to eye level .....which it isnt.


Totally agree with everything about Bucket......sickening man. Get the heck out there billy goat , hop the fence ....


You joke of course , but I do like hitting up on it sometimes with a driver......I think Homer's words on the matter are correct as written and support hitting up on it if the situation merits. Per 2-J-2 INSIDE OUT IMPACT:

"The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Down-stroke, even when using a Driver, except under special conditions or to produce a special effect, which is a separate area of consideration."


This is gonna be a good thread, Daryl, 'specially with those D plane guys around to "straighten us out", so to speak. Im glad we have Trackman to discuss too. We're on the verge of "adding more detail", via additional information and questions of all kinds. More detail, more precision, more birdies.

Thanks for the photo of Homer's garage. Cant believe its unchanged.