Arch your Left Wrist at Impact Fix . . . Clubface will OPEN. So maybe some people HOOK who have the Arch at the Top because the have to compensate for the alignment at the top which looks "shut" but is really OPENNING the clubface.
One interesting thing that I picked up by watching Yoda give this guy a lesson was that he was a bit Arched and as a result couldn't fully uncock to Full-Lever Extension. As a result could get completely DOWN because his Left Arm Wedge couldn't work properly.
gotta love the Machine.
Arch your left wrist at impact fix...clubface will tend to open. Correct. Actually, the clubface will be slightly delofted as well as opened slightly. Now try this...
Take your normal grip and cock the left wrist so the club comes straight up and the club and left arm form a 90 degree angle. Hold the club in front of your chest, arms parallel to the ground, clubshaft pointing to the sky, clubface "square". This mimics the left arm - clubshaft relationship at the top of the swing (90 degrees). Now arch your left wrist. The clubface will close as the shaft is axially rotated into a closed position, exactly the opposite effect as arching the wrist had on the clubface while in the address/impact position.
I picked up this interesting tidbit from a famous instructor who knows TGM inside and out, and I haven't heard anyone talk about this since.
As the number 3 accumulator angle increases or decreases, the resulting effects on the clubface change dramatically in regards to bowing (arching) or cupping (bending) the left wrist.
So, at the top of the swing, assuming a 90 degree angle between clubshaft and left arm exists, bowing the wrist shuts the clubface due to the shaft being axially rotated closed.
More food for thought...
Ben Hogan...
Cupped at the top...has an opening effect on the clubface...AND bowed at impact...also has an opening effect on the clubface...a perfect formula for a left-to-right ballflight.
That's the secret right there. It's not just the cupped left wrist at the top. It's not just the bowed left wrist at impact..it is the combination of the two.
Arch your left wrist at impact fix...clubface will tend to open. Correct. Actually, the clubface will be slightly delofted as well as opened slightly. Now try this...
Take your normal grip and cock the left wrist so the club comes straight up and the club and left arm form a 90 degree angle. Hold the club in front of your chest, arms parallel to the ground, clubshaft pointing to the sky, clubface "square". This mimics the left arm - clubshaft relationship at the top of the swing (90 degrees). Now arch your left wrist. The clubface will close as the shaft is axially rotated into a closed position, exactly the opposite effect as arching the wrist had on the clubface while in the address/impact position.
I picked up this interesting tidbit from a famous instructor who knows TGM inside and out, and I haven't heard anyone talk about this since.
As the number 3 accumulator angle increases or decreases, the resulting effects on the clubface change dramatically in regards to bowing (arching) or cupping (bending) the left wrist.
So, at the top of the swing, assuming a 90 degree angle between clubshaft and left arm exists, bowing the wrist shuts the clubface due to the shaft being axially rotated closed.
More food for thought...
Ben Hogan...
Cupped at the top...has an opening effect on the clubface...AND bowed at impact...also has an opening effect on the clubface...a perfect formula for a left-to-right ballflight.
That's the secret right there. It's not just the cupped left wrist at the top. It's not just the bowed left wrist at impact..it is the combination of the two.
.................................................
Very interesting vjcapron!!!
So it depends WHEN(at what stage) the LEFT WRIST is ARCHED or CUPPED(actually FLEXION or EXTENSION) during one's pattern?
Your explanation makes sense. More should be looked into involving this.
The DUVAL, LIETZKE, TREVINO, type of POSITION AT THE TOP is then actually SHUT? They then must make some type of compensation at Impact to OPEN the face... could be Angled Hinging.
That's the secret right there. It's not just the cupped left wrist at the top. It's not just the bowed left wrist at impact..it is the combination of the two.
Moving from cupped to arched is moving AWAY from throwaway, which is of course, a good thing - throw away prevention.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
So it depends WHEN(at what stage) the LEFT WRIST is ARCHED or CUPPED(actually FLEXION or EXTENSION) during one's pattern?
Your explanation makes sense. More should be looked into involving this.
The DUVAL, LIETZKE, TREVINO, type of POSITION AT THE TOP is then actually SHUT? They then must make some type of compensation at Impact to OPEN the face... could be Angled Hinging.
Let's get MORE INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT!!
Lagster,
I, too, think this is a very interesting topic and that it has not been studied enough. I guess that the complexity surrounding the different wrist positions and the resulting effects on the clubface is a good reason to just keep the left wrist flat and to maintain the left arm flying wedge as recommended by Yoda.
In response to your question about DUVAL, LIETZKE, and TREVINO...and I'll add LEHMAN to the list...yes, their clubface positions at the top are shut! Dead shut!
What do all these players have in common? They all setup open to their target lines. Since they all have strong left hand grips, they all destroy their left arm flying wedges on the way to the top, however they all comply with the law of the flail which enables them to time their clubface rotation shot after shot. We have fairly deep divots in this foursome, and a few back problems, too.
Dr. Jim Suttie would classify these guys as "Shut Face Players" and he has an interesting chapter on how to make these swings work in his new book.
The question is why does the left wrist appear cupped (bent) when one first turns the left hand on the grip so that the palm faces more groundwards at address, and then cocks the wrist upwards.
I believe that is is due to an anatomical re-arrangement of the wrist alignment due to forearm rotation (pronation). If one holds the flat left hand with fingers outstretched so that the back of the left hand is vertical, then any upcocking and downcocking wrist movement is a "pure" cocking movement (radial and ulnar deviation of the wrist at the radio-carpal joint). However, if one first pronates the left hand (which is a forearm movement and not a wrist movement) before gripping the club and then grips a club (producing a turned hand grip), and then performs the same vertical-to-the-ground cocking movement of the clubshaft, then the left wrist will bend (dorsiflex) because the cocking movement is occurring across the plane of the wrist joint, which is turned to the right secondary to a forearm rotary movement. To perform a "pure" cocking movement that will not produce bending of the left wrist in that turned hand situation, then the club must be cocked in the plane of the wrist joint - so if the left hand is pronated 30 degrees (which rotates the wrist plane 30 degrees), then the club must be cocked in a plane that is 30 degrees to the right.
I thought that TGM students may enjoy understanding the anatomy of wrist movements so I produced the following image.
There are 8 wrist (carpal) bones.
Only two planar movements are possible at the wrist joint in two opposite planes - hinging (what HK calls bending/flattening) and cocking.
Cocking upwards causes radial deviation of the wrist - see left upper photo. It occurs mainly as a sliding action at the radio-carpal joint between the end of the radius and the scaphoid bone. Cocking downwards causes ulnar deviation of the wrist (see right upper photo) and occurs mainly at the articulation between the radius and the two proximal carpal bones (scaphoid and lunate).
Hinging forwards (palmar flexion) produces a palmar-flexed hand, and occurs at two articulatory levels - a certain amount of sliding between the radius and lunate bone, and a certain amount of inter-carpal joint sliding between the lunate and capitate wrist bones. Hinging backwards (dorsiflexion) produces a dorsiflexed hand (what TGM calls a bent wrist) and occurs partly at the level of the radiocarpal articulation (between the radius and lunate bone) and partly at the level of the intercarpal articulation between the lunate and capitate wrist bones.
Pronation and supination of the hand are not wrist movements and usually occur due to rotation of the radius bone over the ulna bone in the forearm, but the rotary movement can also occur at the level of the shoulder socket joint.
Jeff.
Last edited by Jeff : 04-24-2008 at 06:03 PM.
Reason: Add additional comment.
Arch your left wrist at impact fix...clubface will tend to open. Correct. Actually, the clubface will be slightly delofted as well as opened slightly. Now try this...
Take your normal grip and cock the left wrist so the club comes straight up and the club and left arm form a 90 degree angle. Hold the club in front of your chest, arms parallel to the ground, clubshaft pointing to the sky, clubface "square". This mimics the left arm - clubshaft relationship at the top of the swing (90 degrees). Now arch your left wrist. The clubface will close as the shaft is axially rotated into a closed position, exactly the opposite effect as arching the wrist had on the clubface while in the address/impact position.
I'm not following the logic here in regards to how arching the left wrist at the top closes the clubface. Help?
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
I love this topic and will now add to the confusion with my own question in the hope that Yoda will set all of this straight.
If I have understood things correctly; The plane of the left wrist cock and the left arm not one and the same. At top, when viewed from down the line, the left arm is above the plane, the right arm is below and the palms when clasped as in prayer are sandwiching the inclined plane. The shaft and the club face lay on this inclined plane. The left wrist also cocks along this inclined plane. To me meaning that the left wrist must be cupped at top. A flat left wrist would imply an off plane cocking along along the line of the left arm and a slightly closed clubface. A bowed left wrist would imply an even further off plane cocking and even more closed clubface.
IF this is correct and the left wrist ideally goes to flat or bowed at impact then how do we reconcile this with the notion of the LAFW with its non bending left wrist?
At the top of my swing, my left wrist tends to be cupped rather than flat. I play off 4 (3. at the moment but have been lower and having made TGM swing changes since around March this year I am expecting to get lower again next season.
My question(s) are thus:
1. How important is it to remove the cupping from my swing?
2. Is extensor action the way to remove the cupping?
3. If the answer to (2) is 'yes' what is the best drill for extensor action and what does the 'pull in the direction of the left arm not the direction of the shaft mean?
When I try to remove the cupping, it makes me feel like I am swing very very flat and I am more inclined to hook the ball.
Thanks for any help/light shone on this.
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
1. Only important if the cupping you have noticed is an off plane , horizontal wrist motion. If on the other hand it is the natural result of an on plane left wrist cock then dont change it. This is all grip type dependent. Do Yodas hammer drill and look, look , look at your left wrist. Mine cups a little as the left wrist cocks, so do most peoples I believe.
2.EA is a separate issue which may or may not help if you are really making an off plane left wrist motion. The cupping issue relates to the plane of the left wrist cock and the Left arm flying wedge.
3. Use the search tool for a variety of EA drills. The left arm is above the plane and therefor not inline with the shaft. EA is a pulling on the left arm and therefor a pulling in a direction below the shaft plane. The right forearm is on plane not the left arm. The left arm is above the plane but points below the plane.
at the moment but have been lower and having made TGM swing changes since around March this year I am expecting to get lower again next season.
Linear Mode
