I know that everything is rotating...but I personally don't really feel it (or sense it consciously) in PP3....I would think that I sense the rotation more in my left arm, left hand, and left wrist (left wrist = clubface). I use PP3 mostly to trace the plane line (if I'm using RFT) and I guess more subconsciously to sustain lag.
BTW, I thought left hand was clubFACE, right hand (which includes PP3) was clubHEAD?
Left Hand CF Alignment -- Right Hand CH Lag -- Left Wrist CH Rotation
Originally Posted by birdie_man
BTW, I thought left hand was clubFACE, right hand (which includes PP3) was clubHEAD?
The Left Hand and its Hinge Action is Clubface Alignment/Ball Control (Component #10). It is in operation from Impact to the end of the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). The Flat Left Wrist is held Vertical to one of the three Associated Planes (Horizontal, Angled or Vertical). This is an Arm Motion and not a true Rotation of the Hand.
The Right Hand and its#3 Pressure Point (Forefinger or First Knuckle or, if Rotating, both) is ClubheadLag/Thrust Control (Component #11). It is in operation from the Start Down Loading to the Finish. The Lag Pressure is totally inert and never 'Released'.
The Left Wrist and its Turn and Roll is Clubhead Rotational/On Plane Control (Component #18 ). This Wrist Action is in operation prior-to-Impact. In the Swinger's Standard Wrist Action -- a Swivel Action -- it is a true rotation of the Hand independent of Arm Motion.
The Left Hand and its Hinge Action is Clubface Alignment/Ball Control (Component #10). It is in operation from Impact to the end of the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). The Flat Left Wrist is held Vertical to one of the three Associated Planes (Horizontal, Angled or Vertical). This is an Arm Motion and not a true Rotation of the Hand.
I think I'm only beginning to really understand hinge action (I've been swivelling through impact). A couple of questions:
(1) If hinge action is an arm motion, does that mean that the hands (during the impact interval to follow through) come through flatter with horizontal hinging, more upright with vertical hinging and somewhere in between with angled hinging? In an ideal horizontal hinge would your hands trace a path basically parallel to the horizontal plane (for all intents and purposes the ground) through this interval? Is that a closing only action hinge?
(2) Should the swinger feel a definite end to the swivel into impact alignments? Is there a stopping of the swivelling roll feel?
Thanks,
Chris
(By the way, it was only after seeing Collin's video that hinging (as opposed to swivelling) really started making sense to me - fantastic)
I think I'm only beginning to really understand hinge action (I've been swivelling through impact). A couple of questions:
(1) If hinge action is an arm motion, does that mean that the hands (during the impact interval to follow through) come through flatter with horizontal hinging, more upright with vertical hinging and somewhere in between with angled hinging? In an ideal horizontal hinge would your hands trace a path basically parallel to the horizontal plane (for all intents and purposes the ground) through this interval? Is that a closing only action hinge?
(2) Should the swinger feel a definite end to the swivel into impact alignments? Is there a stopping of the swivelling roll feel?
Thanks,
Chris
(By the way, it was only after seeing Collin's video that hinging (as opposed to swivelling) really started making sense to me - fantastic)
1) Certainly the 'feel' of a proper horizontal hinge action is IMO a very 'horizontal' feeling - that of a closing door - a 'level frisbee toss' - this should not disrupt the fact that impact is DOWNward.
2) The 'roll' is imparted by the PIVOT. Uncock (on plane) then Roll (via the pivot throw out action). The uncock is a 'downward on plane' motion, the plane of the left wristcock, the left wedge. If CF is being used properly, the 'true swinger' will find that nothing must be done with the HANDS to produce 'roll' - simply uncocking and pivoting properly.
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2) The 'roll' is imparted by the PIVOT. Uncock (on plane) then Roll (via the pivot throw out action). The uncock is a 'downward on plane' motion, the plane of the left wristcock, the left wedge. If CF is being used properly, the 'true swinger' will find that nothing must be done with the HANDS to produce 'roll' - simply uncocking and pivoting properly.
This is what I feel with the Tomasello motion shown recently - a strong uncocking downplane with the feel like the club is going into the ball way open. But then the pivot kicks in and you get a nice little drawing action. Sometimes I fail to trust however, and bend the plane line - I mean the club looks really open!
With the pivot supplying the roll, would you say the pivot centre (or verticle axis) is serving as a hinge pin on the horizontal plane?
How many on here can actually Feel a rotating lag pressure point? Please - everyone respond.
Thanks.
And got this:
Originally Posted by EdZ
The startup swivel and 'end' are the two key areas IMO.
Why startup swivel??? I can understand end.
Originally Posted by tongzilla
After what has been discussed, I think the keys to this 'top of the shaft loading feel' is:
Drag Loading
Standard Wrist Action on Downstroke
The reason I didn't include Startup Swivel (or Standard Wrist Action on Backstroke) and End Assembly Point is because they are not mandatory for this quater turn feel in loading pressure, even though they are very compatible.
I assume by 'top of shaft loading feel' you mean rotating lag pressure point. Agree with drag. Why only list standard???
Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???
Originally Posted by birdie_man
I know that everything is rotating...but I personally don't really feel it (or sense it consciously) in PP3....I would think that I sense the rotation more in my left arm, left hand, and left wrist (left wrist = clubface). I use PP3 mostly to trace the plane line (if I'm using RFT) and I guess more subconsciously to sustain lag.
BTW, I thought left hand was clubFACE, right hand (which includes PP3) was clubHEAD?
First, I agree. I dont feel it either. But then again, I have way way too many moving parts!!!!!!!
Secondly, you are correct - lefthand=clubface, right hand=clubhead as Lynn puts it together below..
Originally Posted by Yoda
You are making remarkable progress, Leo. Three thumbs up!
Ahhh....My Yoda. A thumbs up for Tong.....
Same questions!
Why only list standard???
Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???
With Standard Wrist Action the Left Wrist Turns and the Right Forearm FANS. The #3 Pressure Point will go along with this movement. I think the #3 Pressure Point Rotation Mr. Kelley talks about(10-11-O-3) is at the End(Swinging).
The question I had is if the #3 moves to the Top of the shaft...what CAUSES the pressure point to get back to behind the shaft(on plane), manipulation or centrifugal force? I realize that SOME Swingers keep it in the Weak (on top) position after it rotates at the END, but I think it is better if it goes back to the ON PLANE position at some point before IMPACT.
With Standard Wrist Action the Left Wrist Turns and the Right Forearm FANS. The #3 Pressure Point will go along with this movement. I think the #3 Pressure Point Rotation Mr. Kelley talks about(10-11-O-3) is at the End(Swinging).
The question I had is if the #3 moves to the Top of the shaft...what CAUSES the pressure point to get back to behind the shaft(on plane), manipulation or centrifugal force? I realize that SOME Swingers keep it in the Weak (on top) position after it rotates at the END, but I think it is better if it goes back to the ON PLANE position at some point before IMPACT.
Like I said in my previous posts, the feel of Pressure Point #3 rotating is not really to do with Standard Wrist Action on Backstroke, or the End location of Assembly Point.
Pressure Point #3 doesn't actually physically move to the top of the shaft -- it's a feeling.
PP #3 moves back to its aft position because of the Release Swivel. There should be a Strong Single Action grip throughout the stroke.
Hybrid Mode
