10-2-B , 10-2-D and PP#1 w/ Extensor

[jmessner]

Been lurking on this forum for a few months along with the yellow book in hand. In spite of playing the game for a fair amount of time at a reasonable level(~1 hdcp), I'm amazed at how much I don't know about the golf swing - mine in particular.

One thing I was experimenting with this last weekend was the feel of extensor action. There've been some excellent posts about this, but I'm not sure I have the right feel for it especially in regards to PP#1. It seems to me that with a 10-2-B grip and applying extensor action that the PP#1 is felt under the right thumb pad pressing down on the left thumb at somewhere between 12 and 1 o'clock on the grip. With a 10-2-D grip, it seems like the PP#1 "moves" to more of a feeling of the cup (or heel) of the right hand pressing on the left thumb at almost 3 o'clock. Not sure if this makes any sense at all, but these feels seem to stabilize the Power Package during the swing. I haven't noted a discussion of PP#1 changing based on grip so I'm thinking maybe I'm still in the dense fog.

So - when applying extensor action is there a very specific location of PP#1 on the heel of the right hand or can it vary depending on grip type? There's a decent chance I have this extensor thing all wrong.

I'm still flip-flopping between 10-2-B and 10-2-D for my own swing(swinger not a hitter), and there seems to be advantages to both but that's a whole other discussion.

[EdZ]

Certainly the 'feels' change slightly, but the key is that extensor action is a move 'away from center', so the direction of the 'stretch' does not change, even though you might encounter different feels with different grips.

[jmessner]

Ok - Thanks guys. I understand the extensor action is more of a pulling out (stretch) action, but, for me at least, there is also a component of pressure of the back part of the right hand toward the grip through the left thumb. I've noticed with a 10-2-B grip and applying extensor action with the heel of the right hand at more of a 3 o'clock position rather than the right thumb pad at about the 1 o'clock position I tend to produce a dreaded push fade. I'll keep working with this some more.....

[mabramb]

Been lurking on this forum for a few months along with the yellow book in hand. In spite of playing the game for a fair amount of time at a reasonable level(~1 hdcp), I'm amazed at how much I don't know about the golf swing - mine in particular.

One thing I was experimenting with this last weekend was the feel of extensor action. There've been some excellent posts about this, but I'm not sure I have the right feel for it especially in regards to PP#1. It seems to me that with a 10-2-B grip and applying extensor action that the PP#1 is felt under the right thumb pad pressing down on the left thumb at somewhere between 12 and 1 o'clock on the grip. With a 10-2-D grip, it seems like the PP#1 "moves" to more of a feeling of the cup (or heel) of the right hand pressing on the left thumb at almost 3 o'clock. Not sure if this makes any sense at all, but these feels seem to stabilize the Power Package during the swing. I haven't noted a discussion of PP#1 changing based on grip so I'm thinking maybe I'm still in the dense fog.

So - when applying extensor action is there a very specific location of PP#1 on the heel of the right hand or can it vary depending on grip type? There's a decent chance I have this extensor thing all wrong.

I'm still flip-flopping between 10-2-B and 10-2-D for my own swing(swinger not a hitter), and there seems to be advantages to both but that's a whole other discussion.

I think I have a general idea but what exactly is "extensor action" and what purpose does it serve? Is it (or should it be) always employed or under certain conditions/circumstances?

Thanks

Michael

[MBCpro]

Mabramb,
See 6-B-1-D.
Extensor action produces a structural rigidity that is a strong deterrent to collapse under the stresses of acceleration and impact. What a great quote from Mr. Kelley and unknown to most of the golfing world outside TGM. Ever heard keep your left arm straight, have good extension, release the club (the non tgm release), these golf without the periods tidbits are all the layman's way of trying to get extensor action. They don't know what it is but they seek it, they don't know how to accomplish it, so they try a myriad of things that don't usually last very long. Once you discover extensor action, you will understand its importance.
In 12-3-0, the mechanical checklist for all strokes, exstensor action appears in every section except for preliminary address, adjusted address and the finish, that should let you know how important Mr. Kelley thought it was.


Todd

[mabramb]

Mabramb,
See 6-B-1-D.
Extensor action produces a structural rigidity that is a strong deterrent to collapse under the stresses of acceleration and impact. What a great quote from Mr. Kelley and unknown to most of the golfing world outside TGM. Ever heard keep your left arm straight, have good extension, release the club (the non tgm release), these golf without the periods tidbits are all the layman's way of trying to get extensor action. They don't know what it is but they seek it, they don't know how to accomplish it, so they try a myriad of things that don't usually last very long. Once you discover extensor action, you will understand its importance.
In 12-3-0, the mechanical checklist for all strokes, exstensor action appears in every section except for preliminary address, adjusted address and the finish, that should let you know how important Mr. Kelley thought it was.


Todd

Thanks Todd. To be clear let me ask you... is extensor action the principle of having a straight left arm throughout the swing by means of extending (continuously) the right arm to insure it remains straight? So is that to say that attempting to keep the left arm straight by using the left arm as the means to do so is an impractical and ineffective way of doing it (am I making any sense?)?

The obvious thing for most anyone trying to accomplish a straight left arm would be just to focus on doing that so there must be benefit to using the right arm.

Thnaks again,

Michael

[MBCpro]

Thanks Todd. To be clear let me ask you... is extensor action the principle of having a straight left arm throughout the swing by means of extending (continuously) the right arm to insure it remains straight? So is that to say that attempting to keep the left arm straight by using the left arm as the means to do so is an impractical and ineffective way of doing it (am I making any sense?)?

The obvious thing for most anyone trying to accomplish a straight left arm would be just to focus on doing that so there must be benefit to using the right arm.

Thnaks again,

Michael

Michael,
The straight left arm in my opinion becomes a hyperextended left arm when done with only the left arm. Extensor action stretches but does not move the left arm, the benefit of the right arm or trail arm (for the benefit of Philly) is the added structure. Golfers continue to allow acceleration and impact to derange their structure, the resistance to deceleration is lost, never to be regained. Extensor action provides for the checkrein action of keeping the right arm from straightening too soon, providing a smooth even thrust of the lever assemblies into followthrough.
Extensor action also provides structure in that it keeps the radius of the primary lever the same as it was established at impact fix. No shortening of the radius for those with exstensor action.

todd

[phillygolf]

Michael,
The straight left arm in my opinion becomes a hyperextended left arm when done with only the left arm. Extensor action stretches but does not move the left arm, the benefit of the right arm or trail arm (for the benefit of Philly) is the added structure. Golfers continue to allow acceleration and impact to derange their structure, the resistance to deceleration is lost, never to be regained. Extensor action provides for the checkrein action of keeping the right arm from straightening too soon, providing a smooth even thrust of the lever assemblies into followthrough.
Extensor action also provides structure in that it keeps the radius of the primary lever the same as it was established at impact fix. No shortening of the radius for those with exstensor action.

todd

When MBCPro talks.....Patrick listens.

Go Irish!!!!!!!!!

[EdZ]

A core difference between trying to 'keep the left arm straight' and extensor action (using the right arm to extend the left) is Rhythm, Rhythm, Rhythm!

The physics involved help the right side 'support' impact at exactly the right time - with the proper rate of clubface closing/motion - the proper amount of rotation. This GREATLY aids in consistency and supports full BALANCE, making it dramatically simpler to maintain. As another benefit, this all adds up to the 'heavy', 'smooth' motion feeling.

Not to mention the ability to maintain a flat lead wrist is just another, important BONUS

Percy Boomer understood this well.