Those are different from the that of the plane line.
Look at 2-C-1.
I realize Yoda says you can trace the Low Point Plane Line, but I would submit that this trace would put you to the outside of the point of impact which doesn't seem to be a desireable thing at least when at first mastering this.
Plane Line definition, see 10-5. Baseline of the Incline Plane is the plane line which is not as shown in 10-5 the other lines.
Simply put starting at the feet looking down with the ball located behind the low point you have
a. Stance Line
b. Plane Line
c. Impact Line
d. Line of Flight
e. Low Point Line
Remember, Martee, don't confuse the Clubshaft's Impact Plane Line with the Sweetspot's Impact Plane Line. These are quite different!
I sense you are about to have a major "Aha!" moment.
Remember, Martee, don't confuse the Clubshaft's Impact Plane Line with the Sweetspot's Impact Plane Line. These are quite different!
I sense you are about to have a major "Aha!" moment.
Actually for 15 months I have on and off worked on one problem. I understood from you your descriptions of these lines.
We had a short discussion regarding Clubshaft's Plane and the Sweetspot's Impact Line. Reference Diag 1-L and 2-C-1#1.
I made the statement that the sweetspot plane will always be flatter (smaller angle) than the clubshaft plane line (the inclined plane). You told me that I still hadn't grasped it or something to that effect.
Along with this quest of mine is to accurately define the sweetspot plane and clarification of what is meant it goes throug PP#3. The Longitudal center of gravity, the line as Homer references is quite valid, but the description that it runs through PP#3 is incidental when stated it must be the aft of the shaft.
Sorry off topic.
Clearly looking at 2-C-1#1 you can see that sweetspot plane must be by defintion flatter.
The order I gave the lines in stands and is supported by Homer's definitions (10-5 and 2-C-1#1).
Part of where I am going with my quest is to validate the Full Plane Board. For a shaft to ride the surface, the Inclined Plane and the fact that the Sweetspot plane is flatter gives me a fuzzy picture.
The Impact Line and Low Point Line do reside on the plane, the sweetspot plane. Anytime the ball is not at the Low Point, then these two line when projected on the surface will have separation (a visual thing) and the amount of separation is a function of the ball distance from low point. The further back the ball is the wider the lines appear. Thus my statement regarding tracing it may not be adviseable until the forearm move is mastered using the Impact Line.
Given a square stance, the inclined plane line is parallel to the Impact line, to the inside and created by a different angle. The distance they are separated is determined by the distance between the hosel and sweetspot.
One of my questions I am chasing is that to draw lines on photos and then attempt to use the clubshaft in reference to the lines seems to be misleading since unelss you are looking face on to the club (facing the toe and looking back to the shaft) you will not be monitoring the sweetspot plane/angle.
Don't know if all this makes sense to you, I am still working on the details to get diagrams to validate. This includes Homers quick test for being on plane (parallel to the line or low end pointing to it and the low end needs to be the sweetspot or sweetspot line extension, I think)
I could go into more depth, but this is already probably too much at this time.
But the concept of tracing the sweetspot plane line makes 100% more cents than tracing the plane line.
Yup, finally got it. Only took, well lets not go into that.
After talking with a number of people over the years, Phd's included, I finally get it.
1. The Sweetspot Plane is something you FEEL that you are swing on.
2. The Sweetspot Plane is not something you can draw on a picture, it is FEEL.
3. The True Plane Angle should be defined and Impact and then applied backward to photo when analyzing them.
4. The Clubshaft Angle is set at Impact Fix is the most likely and accurate line you can identify for see the Inclined Plane.
5. All of this HAS TO BE TRUE, else Homer's Plastic Plane as shown in all the photos would be invalid.
6. 10-5 supports this.
7. 2-F supports this in the definition of On Plane.
The Sweetspot Plane is just a Feel. Plane Boards wouldn't work, laser devices attached to the golf club shaft would be invalid.
That is not to say you can't identify it, but
a. It will always be flatter than the clubshaft plane
b. It is dynamic in that as the clubshaft is move to this plane (see 2-F description of On Plane) it will be changing
and I could go on...
Now if you all are going to say no to this, then I would like to see a series of pictures of a golfer is swinging on the sweetspot plane and at impact is in that position as well including showing that the Forearm is on plane while the clubshaft is not.. Cause you can't have a clubshaft on plane, a forearm on plane and call that the sweetspot plane and state that the clubshaft plane (defined by the clubshaft angle at impact or lie depending upon setup).
I wonder how many people really realize all the lines they are drawing are not the sweetspot plane.
Even Homer addressed part of the concern regarding lie angle in 7-6.
Afterall, it's only a few degrees of difference. Good enough for me But I always know which one I'm feeling...
Not very percise, not very TGM IMO. It does have impacts on analysis of the golf stroke of a golfer. I think it is important else I don't believe Homer would have included it in the book. Alignments...
But when you analyze the photos and videos, you can't draw the feel line. That has been the point I have been trying to address cause what is being said is it is the sweetspot plane angle, sweet spot plane line and that dog just doesn't hunt.
I have not issue stating you monitor and FEEL the sweetspot line, but that is not the actual path of the golf club.
Was making me crazy for a bit over here....seemed like it was too much for me to read when I'm all tired...
So.....if you trace with the Clubshaft (i.e. keep the clubshaft pointing at the Plane Line)....TECHNICALLY, you'll hit it off the hosel....technically....
So either you trace just inside the Plane Line with it (the clubshaft)......or you trace with the (invisible, completely feel-based) Sweetspot Plane (if you connect a line between PP#3 [I assume it's PP#3] and the sweetspot of the clubface).
When reading 2-C-1#1 remember that the Impact interval has been extended to Low Point (Homer has this statement in the first paragraph). Does that clear things up?
How you can trace either the impact line or the low point line since the ball could be located at low point, thus no difference in line.
The Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane line reside on the same plane as shown in 2-C-1#1. The Low Point line is further down the sweet spot plane (lower) thus it presents a 2nd line outside the impact line when represented on the ground.
I probably haven't explained this very well, but if you look at 2-C-1#1 and keep in mind the extended impact interval to Low Point, it should clear it up (I hope).
Was making me crazy for a bit over here....seemed like it was too much for me to read when I'm all tired...
So.....if you trace with the Clubshaft (i.e. keep the clubshaft pointing at the Plane Line)....TECHNICALLY, you'll hit it off the hosel....technically....
So either you trace just inside the Plane Line with it (the clubshaft)......or you trace with the (invisible, completely feel-based) Sweetspot Plane (if you connect a line between PP#3 [I assume it's PP#3] and the sweetspot of the clubface).
I get it.
TECHNICALLY NO... The plane line is defined as the base line at the Inclined Plane (where bottom of the plane where it comes into contact with the ground). Look at 10-5 pictures, the lines and the clubhead. If you hit the ball off the hosel by tracing the Plane Line, then you have a bent Plane Line.
Your feel description has merit IMO for BUT if you were to draw lines on photo or vid to analyze the golf swing, this won't fly.
There have been several threads over the past year regarding exercises and drills as well as what Homer wrote regarding how to test for being On Plane. In the latter, Homer using the Club Shaft as well as he did with his plane board and descriptions of the clubshaft against the plane. All of this is the clubshaft plane defined at Impact. The exercises were what really tossed me for a loop. Clearly Yoda taking the Dowel and spear fishing from the top showing the deliver line, or Chuck with his golf ball thrown at the ball. It does show the concept but incorrectly. It should not hit the ball but hit to the inside of the ball as what they are demonstrating is the travel of the golf shaft to the plane line, the club face sit to the outside of the club shaft. They demonstrated a bent plane line and if the club was deliver as such, it would have in fact been a hosel hit.
My understanding does confirm Homer's points. The descriptions and instruction being given if applied to analysis is incorrect. This is Feel vs Mechanics, analysisis mechanics.
Sorry for the rambling length, but blind acceptance or misunderstnading is something that just didn't fly with me on this topic.
But I always know which one I'm feeling...
Hybrid Mode
