Sweet Spot Plane 2-F GM#67

[Yoda]

Thanks bobbywayne,

The sentence..."When in doubt, "Turn" the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and Sweet Spot will be on the same Plane at Start Down."... is the one I'm having trouble with. Just want to make sure that I understand what this looks like.

It looks like this:

At the Top, both the Hosel and the Back of the Clubface lie flat against the face of the Inclined Plane.

[Yoda]

So... if the clubface is open or closed here, the sweet spot is off plane?

The Clubshaft rotates around the Sweetspot, not vice versa (2-F). Accordingly, the Clubface can be aligned Square, Open or Closed and the Sweetspot remain On Plane. The Clubhead (Sweetspot) Line of Flight (2-N-0) and the Clubface Alignment (2-G and 7-18 ) have (and deserve) their separate identities.

[Yoda]

Yoda, I am confused when you say first, that the hosel and sweet spot are on the swing plane at the top; and that they still share the same plane when the shaft is rotated around the sweet spot. Please explain.

Ray Cayse

Ray,

I did say that the Hosel and the Sweetspot can be on the same Plane at the Top (per 2-F and the question responded to in my post). I did not say that they share the same Plane when the Shaft rotates around the Sweetspot. In fact, they do not (by definition).

[Yoda]

Need some help here. It really goes beyond clearing the FOG, I must be in a free fall to the center of the earth nearing light speed. Sorry for the length.

For some time now, seems as if forever I have been working my way through the book again. The effort is focus at understand the inter-relationships, the variations, etc.

Here is where I am at.

Homer Kelley defines the shaft plane and then goes on to define the sweet spot plane or swing plane ( 2-F ). He then goes on to say that unless otherwise noted, the Plane Angle and the Plane Line will refer to the Center of Gravity application (sweet spot or swing plane defined). Good enough, right?

If a golf club was cut in half down the shaft to the club head and the shaft plane was drawn, it would start at the top of the grip center and run down the center of the shaft and out the bottom of the center of the shaft.

If the sweet spot plane was was identified, again it would start in the top of the grip center but at some point leave the shaft as it went to the sweet spot in the club head.

The angle created by the shaft plane is steeper than that of the sweet spot plane.

Right so far?

Now quite often, not only on this forum but elsewhere as well, Clubhead Lag including Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (6-C-2-0) is referred to as Pressure Point #3. Granted Mr. Homer Kelley again stated unless otherwise specified, Clubhead Lag Pressure Point would be Pressure Point #3. But before making that statement, he stated that the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point can be any of the 4 Pressure Points.

The continue reference to PP#3 as the definition of Imperative #2 'A Clubhead Lag Pressure Point' is misleading. Given Mr. Kelley was quite clear in Grip - Types (10-2-0), 'Don't hesitate to adjust your Grip for better direction' and then there is the Strong Single Action Underhand (10-2-F) which at least the latter makes the statement that PP#3 is the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (Imperative) not accurate.

I understand or least I think I understand why Mr. Kelley opted to referrence one PP#3 when discussing or referencing Lag in other parts of the text, minimize confusion and/or it is generally accepted that PP#3 will be used by golfers with the adoption of the commonly used grip types. I could be wrong. It could have been merely convience.

I also read from the text the PP#3 and PP#1 are on the same line (10-2-0) in the definition of grips. Also in the same section he indicates that a strong grip would have either PP#3 or PP#2 on plane at impact.

Now where all this is going is where do I set up a laser device to test a golf club on plane as defined (2-F)?

I have alread established or at least I have that if you use the club shaft plane the following is true:

a. The plane line is actually about 1 ball width to the inside of the golf ball so that the sweet spot is on line.

b. The plane angel difference between the club shaft plane and sweet spot plane makes the sweet spot plane angle flatter

c. The sweet spot plane line from the club head to the grip is internal to the shaft and exits at the center of the butt grip

Being told before that the laser must be aligned and run through PP#3, well that dog doesn't hunt.

I am approaching melt down on this subject....

Martee

[Bold by Yoda]

Martee,

You have correctly stated that there is a divergence between the visible Clubshaft Plane and the invisible Sweetspot Plane. However, it is not true that the Sweetspot Plane is necessarily Flatter than the Clubshaft Plane (as defined by its normal Lie Angle). At the player's option, that may or may not be the case.

For example, assume the ideal Turned Shoulder Plane Angle(10-6-B per 12-1-0 and 12-2-0). Further, assume that it is executed with the recommended Zero Shift. It is on this Plane that the Sweetspot meticulously adheres -- not the far flatter Plane of the Clubshaft.

Here's how to make it happen:

1. Position your Right Forearm and #3 Pressure Point on the Sweet Spot Turned Shoulder Plane Angle. As I have mentioned in two prior posts, this will require minimal #3 Accumulator Angle and possibly a Clubhead soled more toward the Toe than toward the Heel. The Shaft will definitely be tilted at a steeper Angle than when the Clubhead is soled in its normal 'toward the Heel' Elbow Plane position.

2. Use your Right Forearm to make the required Three Dimensional Backstroke, i.e., to take the Sweetspot immediately Up, In and Back on the Turned Shoulder Plane to the Top.

3. Throughout the move, keep your Head Stationary and Centered between your Feet, and move your Body only as much as is required. The right Shoulder will Turn enough to place itself On Plane, and the Right Hip will Clear enough to accomodate the On Plane Path of the Hands. The Knees and Feet Anchor the Machine and must remain extremely stable. But, never forget: This is a 'Hands Controlled Pivot' System. The Pivot moves only as dictated by the demands of the Hands.

Regarding your specific question as to where to position your laser device, I offer the following:

For a Zero Shift Turned Shoulder Plane, the #3 Pressure Point must be positioned on that Plane at Start Up. With a properly positioned #3, I do not see why each of the three critical points -- the Sweetspot, the #3 Pressure Point and the Turned Right Shoulder -- cannot lie in the same Plane and thus provide the guidance you seek for your laser.

This concept may require Incubation, Martee, but with a little luck, I think we've avoided your meltdown.