hands in downswing?

[Golfie McG]

Landshark,

I'm sure that Mike's intent, given that his DVD is only about Swinging, was to prevent viewer from applying right arm thrust.

Cheers

[landshark]

i'm sure you're right about that, but in watching the jeff hull segments, i get the impression he leads and uses his hands more, even though he's a swinger. i'm just confused whether one is better or the more consistent and easier way.

[Mathew]

Basically the left arm and clubshaft form what is called the "primary lever assembly". It is a law of the universe that to move something you have to create a pressure against it. In golf there is only two points which can move the primary lever assembly - pp4 and pp1.

For swingers - where the left arm is against the chest, you create a pressure to drive the entire primary lever assembly into impact. At the same time, the rotated lag pressure point is thrusted towards the ball or along the plane line at an aiming point.

Thats really the way it works...

The hands are always aiming whilst the pivot drives the left arm and club....

[comdpa]

i'm sure you're right about that, but in watching the jeff hull segments, i get the impression he leads and uses his hands more, even though he's a swinger. i'm just confused whether one is better or the more consistent and easier way.

I assume you play basketball...

Take a bball and try a 3-pointer shot by:

1. Focusing on your calves, thighs, shoulders - how much force they need to exert to pop the ball into the net. As for the hands, let the chips fall where they may.

2. Aiming with your hands.

Take 10 shots with each procedure and see the stats.

[Trane]

I'm not sure Comdpa exactly what side of the fence your on with this, but I like your basketball analogy. I'm not a basketball stud, but I did work on my shot last year quite a bit as both of my sons were playing on city leagues & made for some great father/son bonding!

I know there is is no way I can hit 3's without using my legs & feet. I watch some of the guys in the NBA do it with just upper body, but these guys are huge compare to my whopping 155#'s (wet !!) A lot of those NBA guys shooting 3's still use the lower body.

So as this relates to golf, is you must use the lower body to hit powerful golf shots. You don't have to do, it...we dont in basic motion, and most dont in acquired motion, but in total motion powerful shots....my computer has finally (after 2 months of incubating on this) told me the lower body has to do several things to allow my arms, hands etc. to move thru the ball correctly.

I have to agree with Mathew...about the lag pressure & the primary lever...

I personally take the clug away with the hands, back with the hands, up with the hands...all the way to the top and then SLIDE the hips....as I drag load...then I rotate the hips as I swing the left arms firing #4, #2, & #3 accumulators down the base of the plane line. So, in my mind, I see this as hands controlled pivot, even though my hands didn't move my pivot on the downswing, as it did on the backswing. However, if I don't slide and rotate, I can't clear the right hip, I will round house, or run out of right arm which makes me hit it fat or flip the club face....and LEFT of my target!

I'm still new to TGM so if I've butchered this stuff guys (Mathew, Compda, Yoda & gang) let me know...but my ball striking has improved so much, I feel like I'm a professional witha 15 handicap!

[landshark]

ok. i'm starting to get it to a degree. without all the tgm wording, etc, i should let the body do its thing as pretty much described, but give a place or location for it to go with using the hands. am i getting the jist of it?

[comdpa]

ok. i'm starting to get it to a degree. without all the tgm wording, etc, i should let the body do its thing as pretty much described, but give a place or location for it to go with using the hands. am i getting the jist of it?

landshark,

You pretty much got it.

Put your focus on the hands and whatever the body does, let it do.

In the golf swing, all we want to do is to take the hands up the plane to the Top and then back down the plane through to the Finish.

Impact is not a station or location to aim for as it is incidental to the swing.

A caveat however. For some of us, the body will disrupt this up and down path the hands must take, but that is another topic altogether...

[landshark]

thanks for the confidence. one more quick question: direction generally is good but misses tend to be thinned shots if anything. i have a feeling that i tend to go more forward in the swing rather than going more 'down'. is there an easy solution?

[Trane]

I believe you got it, but I also believe that most average golfers and hackers don't properly use their lower bodies. When they use it, if they do, its also at the wrong time for many players. As in my case, I would use the hip action as merely a reaction from my hands and arms...trying to follow the hands controlled pivot approach. I tell you, this will cause problems if you don't clear the right hip. So now, I have had to add onto my machine, by a hip slide move and hip turn as I drag load.

After looking back at your initial post, I believe that to answer your question, the pulling from the left start at the very top (drag loading)10-19-C. "It is an out an out PULL..."
Also, according to Homer, one must develope an istant hip acceleration hip action to help create the throw-out action and set up the rhythm. I hope this helps.

[comdpa]

I'm not sure Comdpa exactly what side of the fence your on with this, but I like your basketball analogy. I'm not a basketball stud, but I did work on my shot last year quite a bit as both of my sons were playing on city leagues & made for some great father/son bonding!

I know there is is no way I can hit 3's without using my legs & feet. I watch some of the guys in the NBA do it with just upper body, but these guys are huge compare to my whopping 155#'s (wet !!) A lot of those NBA guys shooting 3's still use the lower body.

So as this relates to golf, is you must use the lower body to hit powerful golf shots. You don't have to do, it...we dont in basic motion, and most dont in acquired motion, but in total motion powerful shots....my computer has finally (after 2 months of incubating on this) told me the lower body has to do several things to allow my arms, hands etc. to move thru the ball correctly.
I have to agree with Mathew...about the lag pressure & the primary lever...

I personally take the clug away with the hands, back with the hands, up with the hands...all the way to the top and then SLIDE the hips....as I drag load...then I rotate the hips as I swing the left arms firing #4, #2, & #3 accumulators down the base of the plane line. So, in my mind, I see this as hands controlled pivot, even though my hands didn't move my pivot on the downswing, as it did on the backswing. However, if I don't slide and rotate, I can't clear the right hip, I will round house, or run out of right arm which makes me hit it fat or flip the club face....and LEFT of my target!

I'm still new to TGM so if I've butchered this stuff guys (Mathew, Compda, Yoda & gang) let me know...but my ball striking has improved so much, I feel like I'm a professional witha 15 handicap!

Trane...

You misunderstood my analogy...lets try again.

If you were to do a jumpshot, do you focus on where your hands are aiming or what the body is doing?

If aiming with the hands: Its as simple as tossing a can into the trash bin. The eyes feedback to brain and hands toss - whatever other muscles need to be used to accomplish this task gets used.

If focusing on the body: You have to identify what bodyparts are going to be utilised in the jumpshot.

The quadriceps, calves, shoulders, triceps - figure out the force you need to generate with these muscles for the distance you desire to throw the ball - whatever the hands are doing, well, let them do what all that body motion makes them do.

This analogy has nothing to do with power - that is another topic - if you want to delve into it, just give a shout.