Gettin' Better . . .

[okie]

Hi Bucket. For me, I don't care much for recreational golf. Mostly
I play to help my practice. Want to figure out the nuts and bolts
of the golf swing. Then I will make my move. At 68 Ha! but still have
dreams. Frank McGee, the owner/director of the Moonlight Mimi tour
has an interesting observation. Aspiring Drumman Futures tour players
should play his development tour until they are ready for the LPGA
tour. When the girls shoot par nothing is said. When they shoot over
par then they get a thumbs down. When under par they get praise.
When their game is consistanly par or under then they can try for the
LPGA where they can make a living. One really needs the game before
trying the higher levels. One time Hogan went to the tent and said
that he had to pull out of a tournment because of health reasons.
The director said, "I am sorry that you can not play", then Hogan
said, "thats all right, half the field can play either".

For me, playing is mostly a way to learn how to score better and
get your handicap down. Not the real place to find the geometry
and physics of the swing that Homer Kelley aspired too. I will bet
that Homer would never have developed the Golf Machine if he
had spent most of his time playing golf with his buddies. Haing in
there Bucket, your improving insite into the golf swing is due to
your study, not your trying to get into the 70s or to lower your
handicap.

I am probably missing the geometry of your point! I have discovered over time that if you don’t get it intuitively , then you must get it mechanically...then know it so well that it appears to be intuitive.

The best example I can come up with is the plane. Every shot has a target line. The plane of every stroke must be pre-selected with relationship to that target line…depending on the shot at hand. The stroke then must comply to that plane…with visual reference to its base line. There are many things that champions have in common…a good one is their ability to visualize a straight line as vividly as if they had created a base line with neon spray paint for each and every shot.

My experience both personal and in observing others is that few actually pick targets! The highest compliment you can pay yourself as a player is to select a target…albeit by faith! I find that compatible alignments (geometry) is the more cerebral and useful of the twins, the other being its brutish sibling, physics. I call them Euclid and Kronk! Other than sustaining lag pressure and extensor action, I do not give much thought to physics , but I focus heavily on the geometry, especially before I pull the trigger. The evidence of this at the highest levels is the meticulous way in which pros organize themselves at address. Homer Kelley gave us proper and correct geometric relationships. I mean…just soling the club correctly per 2-J-1 highlights the primacy of alignments, right? So what I am trying to say is that we take the geometry to the course and verify it to some degree on each and every shot. When people tell players not to think about IT I take that to mean don’t think about the motion, not the geometry. I think the physics flows through a conduit, namely the geometry. I say think about nothing else but alignments…and not just limited to standing square etc.

Not a criticism to what you said, just a piggy-back attempt.

[holeout]

Donn,

I think it's pretty clear what his goal is...

I have a goal . . . maybe too ambitious . . . but you have to dream.

I am 36 years old . . . have to a job, lil' foolz and what's-her-name that take up a bunch of my time . . .

BUT!

I would like to get to scratch by the time I'm 38. You have said it's all about process. This may be a little different process but what kind of plan, process and practice would you suggest for me to achieve my big audicious goal???

In order to get to scratch, there is a lot more to it than just "the geometry." While it's fantastic to know so much information (I am honestly envious of most everyone on this forum who can understand so much of TGM), there's more to playing the game than just making sure your alignments are all in order. There is also more to improving your game than just hitting practice balls, no matter what area of your game you are working on.

Developing your skills to the level you desire is important; you can't shoot 68 if you aren't good enough to shoot 68 . But having the skills required to shoot 68 is completely different from actually being able to shoot 68.

[elliskit]

Developing your skills to the level you desire is important; you can't shoot 68 if you aren't good enough to shoot 68 . But having the skills required to shoot 68 is completely different from actually being able to shoot 68.

holeout,
This is what I was getting at in when I said:

It seems that, when PLAYING (getting the ball in the hole), the mental side is much more important than mechanics.

It seems that there is an UNSEEN component (call it mental, spiritual, emotional, or whatever) that is more important in WINNING (or PLAYING well) than having perfect SKILLS. Not that skills are not important, as you said already, you must have the SKILLS to shoot 68, but PERFORMING at that level requires something beyond physical skills.

I think that is what HB was eluding to when he responded to Bucket's plan:

You've got it. One more. It's all described in your post, but.... Head up, shoulders back, chest out. Puff up. Act like you know what you are doing; soon you will.

Skills give you a baseline. The human WILL or SPIRIT is what ultimately determines your limit, whether it is to go beyond your abilities or to not play up to them.

In relation to skills, also, I think that this is all connected to the INCUBATOR (Chapter 14). If you really BELIEVE that you can do something, and put forth a reasonable amount of effort, your COMPUTER will find a way to make it happen. Your SKILLS will be developed according to the picture your mind and will have painted. They actually feed each other. As skills develop, the picture becomes clearer. Confidence builds, which pushes you to refine your skills to a higher level. It works in reverse, also (like Duval and others).

I like what Tomasello emphasised in the videos. The only shot that matters is the one you are getting ready to hit. You cannot change the past and you cannot do anything in the future. He talked about where Homer said in Ch. 14 that censure has no place. There is no benefit from beating yourself up when you mess up. You can learn from it, but you must maintain the attitude that the mess up does not define your ability. We have all hit good shots. The key is believing that we are the kind of golfer that hits good shots, not that we are bad golfers who get lucky sometimes. Like Bucket said:

4. The worst thing I say about my putting from now on is, "I'm putting good, but I'm not making as many as I would like."

This really applies to EVERY shot, not just putts. Tomasello also talked about "calling the shot" before you make it. Describe, out loud, the target, trajectory, path you want. Let that be the last thing you put into your mind before you swing. Breathe. Make the motion. Nilsson and Marriott talk about this, too, in Every Shot Must Have a Purpose. I am learning that I have been a big roadblock to my own progress. That is changing this year.

[holeout]

holeout,
This is what I was getting at in when I said:


It seems that there is an UNSEEN component (call it mental, spiritual, emotional, or whatever) that is more important in WINNING (or PLAYING well) than having perfect SKILLS. Not that skills are not important, as you said already, you must have the SKILLS to shoot 68, but PERFORMING at that level requires something beyond physical skills.

I think that is what HB was eluding to when he responded to Bucket's plan:


Skills give you a baseline. The human WILL or SPIRIT is what ultimately determines your limit, whether it is to go beyond your abilities or to not play up to them.

In relation to skills, also, I think that this is all connected to the INCUBATOR (Chapter 14). If you really BELIEVE that you can do something, and put forth a reasonable amount of effort, your COMPUTER will find a way to make it happen. Your SKILLS will be developed according to the picture your mind and will have painted. They actually feed each other. As skills develop, the picture becomes clearer. Confidence builds, which pushes you to refine your skills to a higher level. It works in reverse, also (like Duval and others).

I like what Tomasello emphasised in the videos. The only shot that matters is the one you are getting ready to hit. You cannot change the past and you cannot do anything in the future. He talked about where Homer said in Ch. 14 that censure has no place. There is no benefit from beating yourself up when you mess up. You can learn from it, but you must maintain the attitude that the mess up does not define your ability. We have all hit good shots. The key is believing that we are the kind of golfer that hits good shots, not that we are bad golfers who get lucky sometimes. Like Bucket said:

This really applies to EVERY shot, not just putts. Tomasello also talked about "calling the shot" before you make it. Describe, out loud, the target, trajectory, path you want. Let that be the last thing you put into your mind before you swing. Breathe. Make the motion. Nilsson and Marriott talk about this, too, in Every Shot Must Have a Purpose. I am learning that I have been a big roadblock to my own progress. That is changing this year.

Ellis,

Couldn't agree with you more! My posting was in response to the (seemingly) opposing views that Donn had about getting out and actually playing a lot of golf, as opposed to just practicing all the time. The only area that you and I seem to disagree is the manner in which you acquire not only the skills to play well, but the ability to actually shoot good scores. You do, however, raise some good points with regards to what HB said about "act(ing) like you know what you are doing." Hopefully he can chime in too if he has an opinion on the matter. I'd be interested to hear it.

That being said, I feel that a big part of the reason tour pros are able to do things like:

- come back from a birdie with a bogey
- come back from a bad nine holes to shoot a good one, salvaging your score
- continue firing at pins when you are already 7 under
- "get it in the house" when you're off your game
- follow up a 32 with another 32 (or 31)

is because they have done it before, many many times. Most of them have also failed at doing those things before too. And they learned from it.

I think it was Michael Jordan who said, "Nothing prepares you for handling pressure, like handling pressure."

[okie]

Ellis,


That being said, I feel that a big part of the reason tour pros are able to do things like:

- come back from a birdie with a bogey
- come back from a bad nine holes to shoot a good one, salvaging your score
- continue firing at pins when you are already 7 under
- "get it in the house" when you're off your game
- follow up a 32 with another 32 (or 31)

is because they have done it before, many many times. Most of them have also failed at doing those things before too. And they learned from it.

I think it was Michael Jordan who said, "Nothing prepares you for handling pressure, like handling pressure."

In order to get to scratch, there is a lot more to it than just "the geometry."

I’m sure we are just talking degrees here, but I think what enables pros to accomplish the list you cited is an on plane right forearm, a lag pressure point and a pre-selected hinge action. Getting bogged down in mechanics as the pundits but it is nothing more than dealing with the endless litany of associative feels that are not rooted in principle. Too much is made of the so-called X factor relating to human performance. I say it is nothing more than IMAGINATION! But what are we to imagine? I think the best players just “see it” better than we do. I recall Lynn talking about the “Bubba Effect”, or the second ball syndrome, where you always stripe the second ball down the gut after wiping one into a housing development! This is why address 3-F-5 is crucial to scoring success. You gotta feel like you have already done the deed! That by the way is REAL patience.

False mechanics is position golf…true mechanics is alignment golf…or the science of relationships…GEOMETRY! Have you ever stood over a 25ft putt and just knew that you were going to hole it? In my opinion that is a state induced by the correct orientation towards a straight plane line i.e. you just see it! Without geometry we cannot aim. No aim means a non-specific plane. i.e an all too common any plane will get me there mentality. It does not work with the flying variety either. That of course means a lot of golf!

So, position mechanics is verboten…alignment mechanics (and the meaningful associative feel) is recommended. To feel it is to reproduce the mechanics. I may be putting too fine a point on it…but thar ya go!

[12 piece bucket]

Donn,

I think it's pretty clear what his goal is...



In order to get to scratch, there is a lot more to it than just "the geometry." While it's fantastic to know so much information (I am honestly envious of most everyone on this forum who can understand so much of TGM), there's more to playing the game than just making sure your alignments are all in order. There is also more to improving your game than just hitting practice balls, no matter what area of your game you are working on.

Developing your skills to the level you desire is important; you can't shoot 68 if you aren't good enough to shoot 68 . But having the skills required to shoot 68 is completely different from actually being able to shoot 68.

Very good points . . . that unfortunately I do resemble.

[12 piece bucket]

Ellis,

Couldn't agree with you more! My posting was in response to the (seemingly) opposing views that Donn had about getting out and actually playing a lot of golf, as opposed to just practicing all the time. The only area that you and I seem to disagree is the manner in which you acquire not only the skills to play well, but the ability to actually shoot good scores. You do, however, raise some good points with regards to what HB said about "act(ing) like you know what you are doing." Hopefully he can chime in too if he has an opinion on the matter. I'd be interested to hear it.

That being said, I feel that a big part of the reason tour pros are able to do things like:

- come back from a birdie with a bogey
- come back from a bad nine holes to shoot a good one, salvaging your score
- continue firing at pins when you are already 7 under
- "get it in the house" when you're off your game
- follow up a 32 with another 32 (or 31)

is because they have done it before, many many times. Most of them have also failed at doing those things before too. And they learned from it.

I think it was Michael Jordan who said, "Nothing prepares you for handling pressure, like handling pressure."

That doofus Henny is fishin' . . . I'm sure that he'll chime in upon his return no doubt smelling like catfish or carp on a plank.

[dkerby]

You guys are great. Really into the Golfing Machine. What a treat.
Gettin' Better is one of the best topics placed on the forum.

I have given more than a dozen books to friends only to get
dissapointed to find that they speed read the book and never
go back to it for referance. I hear all the answeres, have to refer
to other chapters to much or to technical. I try to encourage
the Homer Kelly principles but most golfers try only a little and only
on the course. Then they watch the Golf Channel and want to
try something entirely different from The Golfing Machine. I am
sure that you Guys have faced the experience. I must admit that
I read the book 9 times, over the years, before the Lynn Blake
Forum came into existance. I had a hard time with the reading. What a revolution! When the Forum came into exsistance, what a change. Unfourtainly many Golfers are not savy enough to use the internet forum
and therefore cannot gain the enthusiam to go forward with The
Golfing Machine.

One of my favorite passages from the book is "Demanding that Golf
instruction be kept simple does not make it simple--only incomplete
and inaffective". I guess the main reason that I like the range over
playing is that to much time is wasted playing a round. A common
question at Lynn's clinics is, Would you guys rather go on the
course and play or would you rather stay here and work on your
swing. Normally I see about half to two thirds go out to play.
Maybe they want to see if they can take what they learned to course?
For me, I would much rather spend the valuable time learing more
form Lynn, Tedd and Jeff. I print a lot of the posts and make books
out of them. I can take the books to the range and go through all
the points, hitting balls to test the threads and find out how they
relate to the overall swing. I cannot make a full study on the
course playing. I guess, that if I find the secret, I will play more?
I would much prefer to learn ball striking rather than trying to
lower my scores through course management. Another passage,
Hogan said, "never hit a shot on the course that you have not
practiced on the Range".

Like said in a movie," you guys are not great, you are better than
that". Thanks for all your input.

[okie]

Yeah...I second that motion. The yeaahhboyz have it!

This is the primary reason why I would be keeping you company on the range soaking up some real teachin': They are truth brokers. I have said it several times before, but repetition of the truth is just amplification.

The lowest round I ever shot was a **. I remember the hangover i had the next day! Not becasue of some revelry and fermented beverages, but rather because I had no freakin idea how I did it! The next round out was much like the ones I had played just before my flash of brilliance...just OK. Outside of the luck involved in shooting low I knew that I could not articulate a description in words, or even in a feel that could be recalled. After some back slapping, I scurried off to the range to keep my fragile ballon aloft! POP!!! I am not ashamed to admit that my eyes misted up...OK... I cried like big fat baby! This scene after shooting **! IT (the alignments and the lag pressure) started to recoil in fear of all the bubble gum tips I had filed, and was now running through!

Number one key to playing good golf was shared with me by a 4 time British Open winner. "You must always be free of tension, Master!" Tension is a mental thing. The "truth will set you free" even if you fail to comply you are never technically lost, just a bit out of joint. That lost feeling is what I have never really liked...not faulty compliance. Lost = tension. Found = free!

I'm on vacation...can't your tell?





I believe that having a clue on the range increases my appetite to play.

[glcoach]

I think this is one of the most interesting threads on this forum. I have enjoyed reading.

I too am trying to "get better" and can see myself in all of these posts. Some people seem to just naturally know how to "get on top" of the game, own it, even. Seems kind of innate somehow, either you got it or you don't. I got the skills, but puting it all together is fleeting. Par one day 79 the next three months later haven't broken 80. It turns around play great for a couple of weeks then it starts all over. Always around 80, just can't get over the hump and stay there score wise.