A Ben Doyle Lesson -- Part III / Ball-Turf...Please - Page 5 - LynnBlakeGolf Forums

A Ben Doyle Lesson -- Part III / Ball-Turf...Please

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2005, 08:40 PM
dcg1952 dcg1952 is offline
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Ben Doyle has the patience of Job.
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Old 07-10-2005, 09:33 PM
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Martee Martee is offline
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Originally Posted by DDL
Karate Kid. Wax-on, wax-off.

BTW, is there a Brian Manzella tape floating around from his first lesson with Ben?
Did they have video camera's back in those days?
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Old 07-10-2005, 09:37 PM
Abudoggie Abudoggie is offline
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I guess what I was getting at is Ben's ongoing focus on the fundamentals while teaching a particular topic.

For example the sand drill, he seems to be trying to instill a feel for creating lag and impact without "adding". While doing this he is also sweeping over the student like a wave with ongoing fundamental reminders such as proper set-up to the ball.

My analogy is that Doyle seems to teach like waves rolling in from the sea. When the wave breaks on the beach it is at the high point (destination of the lesson taught). To reach the high point the wave must wash in and then wash back out from whence it came (cover the same old ground). Repeat the wave process and you have a pretty effective teaching method.

Thats what I meant by repetition. The kid wants to smash drives and probably would rather only be talking/practing that. But he is high and dry like old driftwood stuck above high tide. Old driftwood doesn't remember or recognize the feel of water. Ben is trying to gently pull that driftwood from being stuck on the beach to starting over and he does it gentle wave after wave.

I don't think there is a grand "a-ha!", the "a-ha!" is accumulated over some time as all the parts of the puzzle come together.

Abudoggie
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Old 07-10-2005, 09:38 PM
DOCW3 DOCW3 is offline
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Originally Posted by dcg1952
Ben Doyle has the patience of Job.
From 4-D-1, "Hitters, especially must learn to straighten the Right Arm without flattening the Right Wrist."

Is this a prerequisite to Ben's drill or, was it included in the drill?

DRW
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Old 07-11-2005, 01:22 AM
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Theodan Theodan is offline
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a little mercy
Some empirically researched science and mercy for any student and instructor.

A student is not just learning a new swing, his brain is remapping a procedural motor skill. see "proactive inhibition".

An instructor has to induce "retroactive inhibition". Some times it takes singular focus and abundant repetiton.

Extra credit reading on the learning component of Cognitive Behavior Theory.....

Student - Where trouble really comes from. 99% of the time we are getting in our own way. And I'm not talking about swing mechanics.

Nitpicking.......

1) Most instructors I have had do not take a few minutes at the beginning of a lesson to explain What we are going to learn that day, Why, and it's significance.

2) 0% of instructors have provided a feedback questionaire after the lesson(s).

In professional training/instruction for corporations, missing #1 will make your presentation much more difficult. Missing #2 will guarantee you will never maximize the experience for the customer. You will also get fired as feedback is always a nonnegotiable requirement.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:18 AM
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Yoda Yoda is offline
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Originally Posted by Theodan
2) 0% of instructors have provided a feedback questionaire after the lesson(s).

Missing #2 will guarantee you will never maximize the experience for the customer.
Thanks, Charlie. What items should be included in a model format? When should the feedback be solicited, e.g., immediately after or some time after or both? How can the questionaire be used to best 'maximize the experience' for both the student and the instructor?
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:51 AM
wanole wanole is offline
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Re: a little mercy
My main issue with the student wasn't his grasping of what he was being told. It was that he really wasn't listening in the first place.

It doesn't take a person who has been playing golf for 100 yrs to be able to approach a ball with your left foot an inch away and such as Doyle was asking.

I think if he listened rather than thought ahead he waould grasp things faster.
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:20 AM
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Bagger Lance Bagger Lance is offline
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Getting It
All I can add is "try it".

Go see Ben and let him put you through his lesson format. It may look easy to the audience, but if you are a flipper or have throwaway it's a very challenging endevour.
Hit with the pivot, aiming point, the setup routine, swivel, snap release, always complete the finish...etc...If you are used to conventional instruction, Ben's lesson will overwhelm you very quickly. As it did this student and as it did me.

But later, the magic starts to happen.

Bagger
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Old 07-11-2005, 04:02 PM
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metallion metallion is offline
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Re: a little mercy
Originally Posted by wanole
My main issue with the student wasn't his grasping of what he was being told. It was that he really wasn't listening in the first place.

It doesn't take a person who has been playing golf for 100 yrs to be able to approach a ball with your left foot an inch away and such as Doyle was asking.

I think if he listened rather than thought ahead he waould grasp things faster.
Trying again - for the last time.

All I can say is that if you or anyone else has a first lesson with Ben it will be a similar experience. You will feel very stupid at times.

If you do not believe it - try to drive a right-hand steering car (for the first time). You have every bit of knowledge you need to do it. You do not even need to listen to anyone to acquire information. But you need to break a habit. Do not be surprised if your first move to entering the car will be grabbing the doorhandle - of the LEFT door. :P

A student must absorb and apply. Application does not come instantly.
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:35 PM
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EdStraker EdStraker is offline
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Re: a little mercy
Originally Posted by metallion
Originally Posted by wanole
My main issue with the student wasn't his grasping of what he was being told. It was that he really wasn't listening in the first place.

It doesn't take a person who has been playing golf for 100 yrs to be able to approach a ball with your left foot an inch away and such as Doyle was asking.

I think if he listened rather than thought ahead he waould grasp things faster.
Trying again - for the last time.

All I can say is that if you or anyone else has a first lesson with Ben it will be a similar experience. You will feel very stupid at times.

If you do not believe it - try to drive a right-hand steering car (for the first time). You have every bit of knowledge you need to do it. You do not even need to listen to anyone to acquire information. But you need to break a habit. Do not be surprised if your first move to entering the car will be grabbing the doorhandle - of the LEFT door. :P

A student must absorb and apply. Application does not come instantly.
My guess is the two most common things to overcome when working with Ben's drills for the first time are:

Hitting fat - Most golfers probably have the ball further back in the stance than what Ben teaches. This requires the student to adjust the aiming point which definetly requires work on the students part to get used to.

Axis Tilt - More axis tilt is required to achieve the snap release. When people try this, they drop their head to achieve this resulting in inconsistent contact. Once they keep the head stationary, they are on the way to achieving better ball striking. The axis tilt will be achieved if the head is stationary, and they let the right should work down-plane.
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