I hit quite a few shanks with pitches and half shots. Everytime I try to lead with my hips and hold the release the shanks apear. Other shots fade when I hit them. I don't expect results right away, but the shanks scare the ou know what out of me and make me feel I am going about this.
As for aiming point. I always thought it was out in front of the ball, but I then see Doyle putting the aiming point out in front of the left foot. Is this right?
Since this is now the"how to structure an evaluation thread" I can chime in with something I know a little about:
I'm not sure major likes/dislikes provides useful feedback about learning. (I really liked the instructor, I liked the facility, I hated the weather.)
Its all about the state of knowledge/skill upon arrival versus departure. What degree of impact did the session have.
Here is one way to do it presuming a lesson (or three day school) has some type of structure. On the left side of the page list the major concepts and/or skills that are taught. Then have two columns for response that ask the student A) what was their understanding(or ability to execute) of the concept/skill PRIOR to the course (1-10) then ask B) what is their understanding/ability to execute upon COMPLETING the course.
That format is simple and quick to fill-out and gives an instructor a guide of their effectiveness transfering knowledge (rather than spouting data).
Then you could supplement with a section that allows a student to write-out more detailed feedback using a STOP-START-CONTINUE format.
What should we start doing that we are not?
What should we stop....?
What did you find particularly effective that we should continue?
After having completed a zillion evaluations over the years and having read a zillion more as an instructor (but not for golf....). This is a simple format that I have found that meets three imperatives:
- quick for the student
- quick for the instructor
- provide a standard for measurable/trackable results at both the student and the session level
I really enjoy hearing the sounds of impact on these clips. Even though the student isn't always dead on, you can clearly hear that he is hitting the ball far better than most ever do.
Thank you again for making this happen!
Abu - a useful feedback loop I have used before (developing software) and one that can work well.
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I hit quite a few shanks with pitches and half shots. Everytime I try to lead with my hips and hold the release the shanks apear. Other shots fade when I hit them. I don't expect results right away, but the shanks scare the ou know what out of me and make me feel I am going about this.
As for aiming point. I always thought it was out in front of the ball, but I then see Doyle putting the aiming point out in front of the left foot. Is this right?
Wanole,
Welcome to the one of the toughest swinging procedures to master but probably the purest. I think Brian mentioned that Ben prefers to teach championship level swinging procedure. I'm paraphrasing but it's close. "If" you stay with it, you will begin to see why the students in nearly every Doyle video struggle with the issues you mentioned above.
It ain't easy!
But there is always time...and dirt...
In terms of aiming point, it varies from club to club. Assuming the student had a wedge in his hand, and Ben had his left foot one inch in front of the ball then yes, the hands would be over the left foot at impact.
As for aiming point. I always thought it was out in front of the ball, but I then see Doyle putting the aiming point out in front of the left foot. Is this right?
Wanole,
I addressed a similar question in the thread accompanying the first Ben Doyle video. I've reprinted that response below.
############################################
You have referred to two different Aiming Points. Both accomplish the desired Impact Hand Location, one directly and the other indirectly.
The first is the direct approach and refers to Ben's use of the term 'Aiming Point' as it relates to the Hands. He has defined this as the Line of Sight through the Impact Hand Location to a point well in front of the Ball (and even the Left Foot). I have not personally talked with Ben about this, but I believe this Line of Sight could be further defined as that spot on the Plane Line where the Right Forearm points at Impact. This, in turn, defines the Right Forearm Angle of Approach,that relationship established at Impact Fix of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to the Ball and to the Plane Line. It is this alignment that the Forearm must leave and then precisely return.
The second refers to the Aiming Point as defined in The Golfing Machine. This is the Aiming Point of the Thrust, usually the Ball (with a five-iron) or just slightly in front of it (shorter Clubs) or behind it (longer Clubs). It is mandatory for the control of the Snap Releases (which happen so fast it is impossible to actually monitor the Impact Hand Location). This Line of Thrust technique automatically drives the Hands toward their Impact Fix Location and is thus the indirect equivalent of the Impact Hands Location procedure.
I really enjoy hearing the sounds of impact on these clips. Even though the student isn't always dead on, you can clearly hear that he is hitting the ball far better than most ever do.
Edz,
I like watching Ben's swing, and listening to impact, too.
But, i noticed during one of the clips, he used his right hand on the club to brush away a ball. He went from a bent right wrist to a completely flat right wrist, and hit the ball very lightly. However, the sound of the "impact" was still of "high quality."
So, I think that it was mainly the audio system which was creating that great sounding impact that we heard on the clips.
As for aiming point. I always thought it was out in front of the ball, but I then see Doyle putting the aiming point out in front of the left foot. Is this right?
Wanole,
I addressed a similar question in the thread accompanying the first Ben Doyle video. I've reprinted that response below.
############################################
You have referred to two different Aiming Points. Both accomplish the desired Impact Hand Location, one directly and the other indirectly.
The first is the direct approach and refers to Ben's use of the term 'Aiming Point' as it relates to the Hands. He has defined this as the Line of Sight through the Impact Hand Location to a point well in front of the Ball (and even the Left Foot). I have not personally talked with Ben about this, but I believe this Line of Sight could be further defined as that spot on the Plane Line where the Right Forearm points at Impact. This, in turn, defines the Right Forearm Angle of Approach,that relationship established at Impact Fix of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to the Ball and to the Plane Line. It is this alignment that the Forearm must leave and then precisely return.
The second refers to the Aiming Point as defined in The Golfing Machine. This is the Aiming Point of the Thrust, usually the Ball (with a five-iron) or just slightly in front of it (shorter Clubs) or behind it (longer Clubs). It is mandatory for the control of the Snap Releases (which happen so fast it is impossible to actually monitor the Impact Hand Location). This Line of Thrust technique automatically drives the Hands toward their Impact Fix Location and is thus the indirect equivalent of the Impact Hands Location procedure.
ok thanks. So as a swinger what should I focus on to make sure my
hands finish ahead of the ball while pivoting past the ball?
I was hitting fat shots (assume from throwaway) when working on holding the angle
on the way thru like Ben was teaching. I'm trying to educate my hands, but I
guess I can't educate if I don't know where to educate them too.
As a swinger I don't really thrust anything, right? I would love to take my "hitting" motion out of my swing and just let CF take over, but to be honest (after playing for 20 yrs) after
just turning the hips to start the downswing I get kind lost. I subconciously
hit at the ball with my hands on the way down. Should I just relax my hands an fling them thru impact with the pivot?
When I do retain some kind of angle the hosel is meeting the ball first. Am I holding it too long? I would like to have a snap release since I am a swinger and want to take teh hitting
motion/feeling out of my swing.
Some of the best drivers of the ball do NOT use a snap release. Use a Sweep release like Watson. Watch Lynn sweep release in the 'swing- hit discussion' clip. He throws out the club (sweep). It works very well on the tee and with woods. And it is a Swing Stroke.
In fact the Sweep release is what lesser educated instructors call 'early release or springing or casting.' All misleading terms because the hands still lag the clubhead. It is just in a SWEEPING motion. Check that clip- it is still the best source of information on the clip site for me. Watch the right shoulder crank and throw out the club. Beautiful.
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