D thanks for the info on the radiused soles. I hadnt seen that, it makes good sense. TSP lives I guess for some.
But this fella you show here. That is a very steep plane he is on. You dont show him at impact exactly or at Top to see where his right shoulder is. To my eye he looks more like:
Quote:
10-6-C SQUARED SHOULDER. The reference point for this Plane Angle is the point occupied by the Right Shoulder (or Left-- for Putting) at Address. With this Steep Plane, Angled Hinge Action becomes almost Vertical Hinge Action (2-D). Accumulator #3 can be zeroed out.
Zeroing out #3 , Vertical Hinging, I hope this fellow has bent his lie angles up a few degrees. Do you think he started on this plane, 10-7-A Zero Shift or did he start on the Elbow Plane then shift to the TSP and leave it there. 10-7-B Single Shift.
I prefer a lower plane angle for impact myself. Homer said we generally use the Elbow Plane almost totally subconsciously which to me implies that it is very "natural", if you will. Im assuming the Right Elbow to be on the clubs shaft plane, lie angle, which isnt necessarily the case.
First, take a deep breath. Exhale slowly, then count to ten.
Please See Post #1. "These are not illustrations of the Left Arm and Clubshaft at Impact."
Then, please see the photo of a golfer on the turned shoulder plane at impact in post #18.
We aren't taking about Impact and the Flat and Level Left Wrist. The thread topic is "Bending the Plane".
Did Hogan have a Flat Left Wrist throughout his Downstroke and Release, and Shift planes and Uncock and roll on the same delivery line? No, he didn't have a Flat Left Wrist during the Downstroke. All that I've said about Hogan was that he found a way to uncock and roll on the same delivery line by using his "Swivel" as illustrated in "5 Lessons" and presented in post #6 above.
Doo Doo Ball . . . how is this NOT a flat left wrist???
Well, I agree that the TSP isn't for everyone. I also agree that the Elbow Plane is more natural although I think that Homer's use of the word unconscious meant "without consideration".
But release motions need to occur on the same delivery line or else the clubhead orbit becomes 3 dimensional. So, those with Hand paths not matching the Clubshaft plane or vice-a-versa, will need some mechanism to arrive at impact without bending the delivery line.
Ben Doyle has suggested that the Plane might be concave. I haven't found much to support that but I find lots of ways golfers get-around the problem.
That's a problem that anyone with a downstroke plane shift must resolve (Hand paths not matching the Clubshaft plane). "Plane Shifts are Hazardous".
But anyone with Hand paths matching the Clubshaft plane can use a Flat Left Wrist Throughout the Stroke and a TSP offers that and more.
Most of my video of Hogan's swing shows that he mastered getting the Clubshaft On plane at the end of startdown, yet he still used the Hogan Swivel where a Flat Left Wrist would work perfectly well. With Shorter clubs he didn't do as well so maybe he figured keeping it for all strokes was better than forgetting to use it on shorter length clubs.
[quote=12 piece bucket;69036]Doo Doo Ball . . . how is this NOT a flat left wrist???
It may very well be a Flat Left Wrist. I wish I had video or pictures of Hogan executing chip and pitch shots because I betcha he used a Flat Left Wrist procedure with those strokes.
But, you must admit, along with the golfing world, that typically, Hogan used a Bent Left Wrist during his downstroke.
It's getting cold outside, almost winter. Have you brought the Hogan Shrine indoors yet? Winter is a harsh environment to be on your knees an hour each and every day.
But release motions need to occur on the same delivery line or else the clubhead orbit becomes 3 dimensional. So, those with Hand paths not matching the Clubshaft plane or vice-a-versa, will need some mechanism to arrive at impact without bending the delivery line.
Where does Homer mention that the Hand Path (Delivery Path) must match the Clubshaft Plane? Assuming one is using the TSP the Hands and the clubshaft travel this plane for instance no? If you are tracing.
While he recommends using a bench or rail for demonstrative purposes he doesnt preclude a plane shift during Release.
Quote:
4-D-0 RELEASE MOTIONS This term refers to the Release of Accumulators #2 during either half of the Release Motion. etc
It is mandatory that there is no break or bend in the Delivery Line direction during either half of the Release Motion. Both halves, as well as, the Release and Finish Roll (2-G), must be executed on the same Delivery Line (2-J-3) – On Line or Cross Line, but not both. Construct an Inclined Plane such as shown in 10-5, or find a low bench, fence rail – or anything providing the Clubshaft with a straight edge or flat surface – and swing the Clubshaft back and forth along that edge or surface while executing the above Wrist and Hand Motions until you thoroughly understand their relation to 10-5. Study 2-N very carefully. That is why item 12-3-22 is capitalized. Study 3-F-6.
Remember a flat plane has a straight baseline. A circle is two dimensional and can lie on a flat plane. If the Plane Line loses it straightness the Clubhead Orbit becomes three dimensional and precision vanishes.
Quote:
Ben Doyle has suggested that the Plane might be concave. I haven't found much to support that but I find lots of ways golfers get-around the problem.
OK I think I get you, now. The geometry is tuff. I have it on good authority that you can with great effort seek to understand it or you can merely trace a straight line Base Line and you'll be ok. A concave plane is not a plane, not a flat plane and therefore wouldnt have a straight line base line. So in fact youd be tracing a new base line or lines and by definition you'd have a bent plane line.
The geometry is confusing but for a flat plane ,that shifts angles, the straight line base line stays the same, the club rides the plane with one end or the other pointing at the base line BUT ASSUMING A SHIFT THE HAND PATH, DELIVERY PATH IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE. See 10-23-B, C and D. Each photo of Dianne in 10-23-B #1, 2, 3 has her club pointed at the straight line base line. Her Hand Path running down plane, her club following and doing likewise.
Quote:
That's a problem that anyone with a downstroke plane shift must resolve (Hand paths not matching the Clubshaft plane). "Plane Shifts are Hazardous".
Shifting your weight is hazardous. Going to End instead of Top is hazardous. Homer used that Hazardous sentence in connection with choosing a Plane Angle higher than the TSP, it requiring a shift back to the TSP before Startdown. That is hazardous, but still good enough to win many a major championship.
Quote:
But anyone with Hand paths matching the Clubshaft plane can use a Flat Left Wrist Throughout the Stroke and a TSP offers that and more.
You're going to have send a diagram on what this relationship means to you. Where is this in the book? What do you mean by clubshaft plane here? Look at Dianne in those photos, her hands and her clubshaft are traveling the same plane angles as she shifts. Elbow, TSP, Elbow, Triple Shift, 10-23-B Angled Line.
Where does Homer mention that the Hand Path (Delivery Path) must match the Clubshaft Plane? Assuming one is using the TSP the Hands and the clubshaft travel this plane for instance no? If you are tracing.
You may know the concept by its Given Name. “Left Arm Flying Wedge”
While he recommends using a bench or rail for demonstrative purposes he doesnt preclude a plane shift during Release.
It isn’t the Plane shifting but the risk of the 3 dimensional Clubhead orbit resulting from a shift not properly compensated.
OK I think I get you, now. The geometry is tuff. I have it on good authority that you can with great effort seek to understand it or you can merely trace a straight line Base Line and you'll be ok. A concave plane is not a plane, not a flat plane and therefore wouldnt have a straight line base line. So in fact youd be tracing a new base line or lines and by definition you'd have a bent plane line.
Wow. Great thinking. That got by me.
The geometry is confusing but for a flat plane ,that shifts angles, the straight line base line stays the same, the club rides the plane with one end or the other pointing at the base line BUT ASSUMING A SHIFT THE HAND PATH, DELIVERY PATH IS NOT A STRAIGHT LINE. See 10-23-B, C and D. Each photo of Dian in 10-23-B #1, 2, 3 has her club pointed at the straight line base line. Her Hand Path running down plane, her club following and doing likewise.
For a Swinger to uncock on the left arm wedge when its delivery line is not the plane line where the ball sits, will require taking the Clubhead out of orbit to reach the ball. Additionally, not executing the “Roll” at the Hinge, will take the Clubhead out of Orbit.
Shifting your weight is hazardous. Going to End instead of Top is hazardous. Homer used that Hazardous sentence in connection with choosing a Plane Angle higher than the TSP, it requiring a shift back to the TSP before Startdown. That is hazardous, but still good enough to win many a major championship.
And Country Club Championships as well. IMHO, “Hazarous” is code for “find a compensation”.
You're going to have send a diagram on what this relationship means to you. Where is this in the book? What do you mean by clubshaft plane here? Look at Dianne in those photos, her hands and her clubshaft are traveling the same plane angles as she shifts.
I see the misunderstanding. Homer is providing photographic aid to help people understand Plane Shifts. Plane Shifts don’t cause Bent Delivery Lines, uncocking off plane or rolling off plane does. So, if you’re uncocking on the Plane of the Left Arm Wedge, but the Left Arm Wedge is not on the Impact Shaft Plane, then you’ll be uncocking off plane. If a Swinger with a sequenced release doesn’t “Roll” at the Hinge, then he’ll “Roll” off plane.
If your Left Arm is pointing to the ground 12” inside the Plane line, and you uncock on the Plane of the Left Arm Wedge (left arm wedge has a flat left wrist), how is the Clubhead going to reach the Plane Line?
This boils down to the Left Arm Wedge. The Wedge has a Flat Left Wrist. At release, if the Left Arm Wedge is On Plane and when you Uncock the Left Wrist, the Clubhead path is On Plane headed toward the delivery line, then...... But what if you Lower your left hand to the Elbow Plane (about 6"). Can the clubshaft uncock toward the delivery line and left arm wedge plane with a flat left wrist at the same time?
Quote:
It is mandatory that there is no break or bend in the Delivery Line direction during either half of the Release Motion. Both halves, as well as, the Release and Finish Roll (2-G), must be executed on the same Delivery Line (2-J-3) – On Line or Cross Line, but not both.
I have probably taken a simple concept and made it complicated.
It is mandatory that there is no break or bend in the Delivery Line direction during either half of the Release Motion. Both halves, as well as, the Release and Finish Roll (2-G), must be executed on the same Delivery Line (2-J-3) – On Line or Cross Line, but not both.
Both halves being release of #2 and #3, Delivery Line referring to clubhead. Arc of Approach or Angle of Approach.
The Left Arm is not on the Inclined Plane (see photo 10-13-D #2) , unless #3 angle is zeroed either by gripping the club along the life line as in putting or when the left wrist is fully uncocked, post impact. The Left Arm is on the Plane of the Left Arm Flying wedge however. The vertical plane, the plane of the left wrist cock and uncock. The Left Wrist is geometrically flat only, not literally flat. But Cocking and Uncocking of the Left Wrist seems to me to be done on the Inclined Plane.
I realize the inconsistency here. Its still in the incubator for me. I can only say that the cocking and uncocking is along the Inclined Plane and at whatever Plane Angle that may be, given shifting. Meaning shifts dont make plain line compliance, tracing or on line release difficult to my mind.
I realize that given this riddle you have chosen the other way round. The uncocking is along the plane of the LFFW. Meaning the left hand is not on the inclined plane and neither is the clubshaft, nor any release motions.
My head hurts again. But Im a Hitter, or a Swinger with thoughts primarily of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge and its frozen right hand staying on the plane the right wrist bend at all times and the pp#3 tracing. Its easier on my brain.
Doo Doo Ball . . . how is this NOT a flat left wrist???
It may very well be a Flat Left Wrist. I wish I had video or pictures of Hogan executing chip and pitch shots because I betcha he used a Flat Left Wrist procedure with those strokes.
But, you must admit, along with the golfing world, that typically, Hogan used a Bent Left Wrist during his downstroke.
It's getting cold outside, almost winter. Have you brought the Hogan Shrine indoors yet? Winter is a harsh environment to be on your knees an hour each and every day.
WHERE in the down stroke? Pitch a tent over the shrine . . . burnt offerings keep the heat bill down.
Please See Post #1. "These are not illustrations of the Left Arm and Clubshaft at Impact." 
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