Just curious. In the basic motion, what distinguishes the swinger from the hitter? It looked like he was starting from impact fix and then picking the right forearm up and bringing it back down.
In the basic motion (12-5-1) or in any motion- the acceleration method is what differentiates the swinger from the hitter- that's it. A close 2nd would be the hinge action/rhythm- as that's normally a result of the acceleration method- but the hinge action does not differentiate hitting from swinging. Otherwise, the basic motion for both is identical.
Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but a swinger has a startup swivel somewhere in the backswing correct? Where as the hitter doesn't? I thought that was one of more the "visual cues" to a swinger/hitter. Obviously the power source is the main key, but i thought this was a close second.
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I'm not a TGM or PGA certified Pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
Jim,
You'd see that in the acquired motion (12-5-2) but not in the Basic motion (12-5-1).
Of course, 6-H-0 covers the overall general differences between the two, again with the same issue that the only one that fundamentally differentiates the two is the acceleration method i.e. you can have a backswing swivel for hitting and add any necessary compensations for it.
So what are you saying, Joe? If you've got a good swing, you really can't get any better, so why try? Or, that watching a good player learn to differentiate the fine points of the Game is of little value to our members?
Extremely well put, Yoda.
Collin came with a good swing but left with an incubator full of eggs after Lynn programmed his computer. He sought to recognize the minute differences in Precision.
Do I need Lynn to transform a weekend player into a single digit player to prove what TGM can do? Not at all.
Not many people would see the hands coming out TOO much, and the resulting actions and compensations for that action("roundhousing" etc.)... good observations mikeo! His stroke LOOKS excellent in many ways, however, and I think you would agree.
I believe I have heard this called... "coming over the bottom."
He does an excellent job of compensating, if in fact this is the case.
It sounds like the "Downstroke Waggle" is how you would go about correcting something like this. You mentioned also "Hands Controlled Pivot" vs. "Pivot Controlled Hands".
Maybe a picture sequence can be posted(I don't have the ability to do so) that shows the hands coming down in relation to the Plane Line, as you describe, and the resulting Hip Action, weight shift ,and Foot Action that occurs from this change.
Lagster,
Not sure how I can help further. However, absolutely looks like Collin can really play! As far as sequences, I would just say go frame by frame in the first swing of Chapter 10 for Collin and then go frame by frame with Els or Hogan in the Gallery. One of the points I was making in my post was that the body shows through amplification- what the hands and club have done- therefore it's part of the information that you use to determine what the clubshaft, face and head have done throughout the movement- that detective work combined with TGM knowledge can help you figure out what's going on with the club and hands and therefore what the club and hands need to do differently and likewise what the body needs to do differently to support that movement.
So what are you saying, Joe? If you've got a good swing, you really can't get any better, so why try? Or, that watching a good player learn to differentiate the fine points of the Game is of little value to our members?
Collin and I had already been working together a full day and a half. Doing 'nothing' I suppose, according to your own sensibility ("why did these lessons even happen?"). Collin would say otherwise. And so would I.
Could you not see that this was a fine tuning...a summary session...the end result of many hours of a successful student-teacher relationship? Do you really think that the disciplined verbal and physical responses Collin immediately made to my instruction were 'all of sudden' just kind of 'happening'? Do you think his Right Forearm was anywhere close to where you see it in the video when we started or that his Left Wrist could produce the precision alignments he demonstrates -- alignments he could now identify by name?
The work we did is indeed a "showcase," and I am proud of it. In fact, it is how a 'good player' becomes a Champion. At my own crossroads in Golf, I didn't have the benefit of this instructional bridge, and I didn't have the talent to overcome the limitations of conventional instruction. Collin arrived at my doorstep with the talent and left with the guidance he needed. He learned how precise it could be -- indeed, how precise it must be - and has since taken his Game to the next level.
The lesson sequence started with Lesson #1 and there was no indication that there was anything preceding that. From the first lesson to the last, he kept the hands above the clubhead and executed chip, pitch, punch, basic, acquired, and full motion for the most part, flawlessly. There was no adjustment of anything - physics or geometry - just a very occasional, "try again".
Indeed, there WAS a lot of very interesting and useful commentary about the Swing - such as your personal alternation between "tracing the plane line" and "direction of PP #3". And, the difference between "throwing the club" versus "driving it". Very entertaining and informational for the viewer, and I fully appreciate that aspect.
But how about taking a life-long hack "flipper" and showing us, step by step, how you turn him into the "flattest left wrist" in golf?
As I watched this sequence of "lessons", it occured to me to ask why they even happened! Clearly, Collin already knows how to execute a TGM Hand Controlled Pivot CF Swing. These aren't so much lessons as they are a showcase. It would be much more instructive to see Yoda take the student in Ben's lesson and make him look like Collin.
I can only speak from my first hand experience with Yoda. On day one...Ugly was as Ugly is. The number of issues, okay problems with my golf stroke numbered in the high 20s. After 4 or 5 hours on the range, another 3 to 4 hours of drills and book work, the difference was night and day. On the second day after 4 hours on the range plus there was about 2 hours or more of review of video and drills that morning, the golf stroke was totally different and it really looked liked a golf stroke. We did some taping and a quick review of hinging, basic, acquired motion, along with Hitting and Swinging which really looked like I had been doing this for much longer than 48 hours. I still go over the tape. After 72 hours it was a complete transformation, not in the same class as Collin but the list of issues you could count on one hand and have fingers left over.
The click of the ball...a sound that is beautiful...ball go good too.
So though Collin in the clips may looked as if he is just doing a 'showcase', I saw this more like the wrap up Yoda did with me to cover the basics and do some fine tuning so that after you leave you have a reference to fall back on. A side benefit,you are right makes for a great showcase of the golf stroke. There is a heck of alot of information buried in those clips, you need to get past just the repeated words and look look look at what all is being accomplished.
Great Vids......
Anyway, I don't know Collin's level prior to arrival, but I can believe that Collin with this experience took his stoke to at least the next level if not higher. And I am sure I heard that he had a limited shot selection and left with alot more.
Lagster,
Not sure how I can help further. However, absolutely looks like Collin can really play! As far as sequences, I would just say go frame by frame in the first swing of Chapter 10 for Collin and then go frame by frame with Els or Hogan in the Gallery. One of the points I was making in my post was that the body shows through amplification- what the hands and club have done- therefore it's part of the information that you use to determine what the clubshaft, face and head have done throughout the movement- that detective work combined with TGM knowledge can help you figure out what's going on with the club and hands and therefore what the club and hands need to do differently and likewise what the body needs to do differently to support that movement.
The student obviously has talent. The information presentet in the videos is an excellent opportunity for people to learn. The old "picture is worth a thousand words" is evident here.
I just think that even with a stroke of this quality, one can learn. That is why I was(AM) curious about the obsverations you(MikeO) made.
Tiger Woods, for example, has a great technique, but is constantly IMPROVING it. He could have very easily assumed that he must have nearly perfect technique... since he is the best player, at least for now. But he does not do that. He and his teachers are looking for subtle little things... to make his stroke even better.
The lesson sequence started with Lesson #1 and there was no indication that there was anything preceding that.
In lesson #1 Lynn demonstrates and summarizes the basic motion stages they worked through. It gave me the impression that he was summarizing what he had been working on with Collin.
One of the other clues this wasn't Collin's first meeting with Lynn was Lynn's comments on Collin's improvement of the swivel in one of the proceeding video clips. He points out what Collin used to do, and how the wrist was now flat through the swivel and points it out to Collin's father.
I think the information shown in this video series is invaluable to members of this forum.
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