Fixing an off-plane downswing

[teach]

O.K., I'm never going to stop being a hacker unless I fix this. On video, I see that I have the classic hacker's "over the top", too steep downswing. I'm trying to fix this by "holding back" my right shoulder until I switch my weight to my front foot. Unfortunately, for some reason, this has resulted in the return of topped and fat shots that I had almost eliminated from my game. The cure is worse than the disease in that I at least had a fairly repeatable swing before; now my vertical radius is wildly erratic.

I'd appreciate drills, swing thoughts, training aids, anything that might help, the simpler the better. By the way, I'm a swinger. Thank you.

teach

[comdpa]

O.K., I'm never going to stop being a hacker unless I fix this. On video, I see that I have the classic hacker's "over the top", too steep downswing. I'm trying to fix this by "holding back" my right shoulder until I switch my weight to my front foot. Unfortunately, for some reason, this has resulted in the return of topped and fat shots that I had almost eliminated from my game. The cure is worse than the disease in that I at least had a fairly repeatable swing before; now my vertical radius is wildly erratic.

I'd appreciate drills, swing thoughts, training aids, anything that might help, the simpler the better. By the way, I'm a swinger. Thank you.

teach

teach,

Per 2-N-0, "There must be an Underhand Pitch motion and Feel...during the Startdown."

1) Stretch your left hand out level with the left shoulder in front of you.
2) Take your baseball and pitch it underhand whilst keeping the left hand stationary there.

Notice how the pivot responds to the demands of the hand. This is in essence a 'Hand Controlled Pivot'.

Also as you are a swinger, one more drill you could consider is to hit balls (after ingraining the underhand pitch drill) and release your right hand only at impact.

[Yoda]

O.K., I'm never going to stop being a hacker unless I fix this. On video, I see that I have the classic hacker's "over the top", too steep downswing. I'm trying to fix this by "holding back" my right shoulder until I switch my weight to my front foot.

I'd appreciate drills, swing thoughts, training aids, anything that might help, the simpler the better. By the way, I'm a swinger. Thank you.

teach,

You are subconsciously Steering (3-F-7-A) the Club toward the Target instead of Down-and-Out toward the Plane Line (1-L #10 and #13). And the only real cure is to rid yourself of that addiction.

Do a ton of Start Down Waggles. First without a Club and then with a Club. Focus on your Hands and their responsibility to maintain the On Plane alignments. Make sure you Drag the Hands (and butt end of the Club) directly toward the Plane Line. In your practice, mentally draw a straight line (Delivery Path) from the #3 Pressure Point to the Ball and move your Hands directly along this line throughout the Downstroke (6-E-2). Use a mirror, too. Don't trust Feel alone. Front and Down-the-Line views. Look, look LOOK until you get it right. Then go at it with a Ball.

Practice the Inside-Out Cut Shot Therapy with short Chips. And hit a ton of Acquired Motion Pitch Shots, too. Make sure you have a Finish Swivel in your Total Motion (12-5-3). See my post #6, Item #10 in this thread http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2224. Do whatever you've got to do to get that Club moving through Impact on the correct Inside-Out Path. Because until you do, nothing else really works.

[teach]

Yoda, I'd be grateful if you'd clarify one point for me. If I'm trying to hit a straight shot, without any fade or draw (I should be so lucky as to be able to hit the latter at this point), what would be the difference between the target and the plane line? Would they not be along the the same line?

I just re-read the sections that you referenced, but I must have some egregious misunderstanding about this. I have a feeling that once I understand this difference, I will have one of those "Aha!" moments.

In any event, I will work on your suggestions. Thank you very much for them.

Comdpa, thank you for your help, as always. Regards to both of you.

teach

[comdpa]

Yoda, I'd be grateful if you'd clarify one point for me. If I'm trying to hit a straight shot, without any fade or draw (I should be so lucky as to be able to hit the latter at this point), what would be the difference between the target and the plane line? Would they not be along the the same line?

I just re-read the sections that you referenced, but I must have some egregious misunderstanding about this. I have a feeling that once I understand this difference, I will have one of those "Aha!" moments.

In any event, I will work on your suggestions. Thank you very much for them.

Comdpa, thank you for your help, as always. Regards to both of you.

teach

teach, you are most welcome.

Please refer to 10-5 of TGM.

Notice the three lines on the ground.

The line nearest to Diane is the 'Line of Stance'
The next nearest line is the 'Inclined Plane Line'
The last is the 'Line of Flight'

Stance line is the line made up by connecting a line from the furthest point of your left and right foot i.e the toes.

Stance line only affects the pivot motion, in that regards, please take a look at 10-12-0.

The Plane Line per 7-5 "is located where the Horizontal Plane and the Angled Plane intersect." That is the line you trace the clubhead on - if you were to keep it on plane per 1-L-6.

The Target Line is the line upon which you want the ball to end up on, not start on. Your clubface per 1-L-17 determines that.

If I use a 10-5-E Closed Closed Plane Line for example, my clubface will be aimed at my target whereas my stance line and my plane line will be pointed to the right of my intended target.

It is important that you set up your stance line and plane line before you grip the club. With a 10-5-E, you will have a strong grip RELATIVE to your stance line and plane line, but it will be square in relation to the target line.

Assuming no hand manipulation, I will then trace the plane line with my right forearm.

The end result will be my ball STARTING on my plane line and then drawing / hooking back to my target.

[Yoda]

...what would be the difference between the target and the plane line? Would they not be along the the same line?

The Impact Plane Line is in front of you and down on the ground. You swing the Club Down and Out toward that Plane Line and through it toward the Low Point Plane Line.

The Target, on the other hand, is well to your left...way out there...somewhere. Steering the Club on a Line to that distant Target is completely different than swinging Down and Out toward the Plane Line down and in front of you.

[12 piece bucket]

The Impact Plane Line is in front of you and down on the ground. You swing the Club Down and Out toward that Plane Line and through it toward the Low Point Plane Line.

The Target, on the other hand, is well to your left...way out there...somewhere. Steering the Club on a Line to that distant Target is completely different than swinging Down and Out toward the Plane Line down and in front of you.

It's little but it's BIG. This is a short and sweet post . . . however, this may be the absolute BEST post on golf I have ever read. The concepts here must be understood or developed unknowingly through instinct or you'll never "get it."

Read this and think about it. This about sums up the golf "quandry" and answers in nice neat package.

Yoda . . .is this gem Homer's or Yoda's or both? No matter this will go right at the top of my Lynn Blake Notes Word File.

Teach understand this and you will not go "over." Read it and conceptualize it.

The target is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. Not OUT THERE.

[Yoda]

Yoda . . .is this gem Homer's or Yoda's or both? No matter this will go right at the top of my Lynn Blake Notes Word File.

Homer's tree.

My fruit.

[Mike O]

First, 12 piece where are your manners- just when I was going to post a similar response- look who's on line and "cuts" in front of me!

Great post Lynn- if that doesn't just hit you over the head with a hammer I don't know what post does! Keep up the great work- I'm in the process of completing your paperwork for entry into the Homer Kelley Hall of Fame for Life! Of course, you're going to need to pay your AI fee first

[tongzilla]

The Impact Plane Line is in front of you and down on the ground.

I don't want to be the party pooper, and I know this doesn't really matter but...

Isn't the Impact Plane Line slightly above the ground since the Clubface rarely contacts the ball right at the bottom? The lower the loft of the club at Impact, the more 'above ground' or towards the equater the Impact Plane Line becomes.