I can't wait until golf becomes appealing to "real" atheletes and Bubba distance becomes the norm. Hitting fairways is not entertainment. I'm sure you run to the tv to watch Fred Funks boring game.
I can't wait until golf becomes appealing to "real" atheletes and Bubba distance becomes the norm. Hitting fairways is not entertainment. I'm sure you run to the tv to watch Fred Funks boring game.
If Bubba distance becomes the norm, then it will be no big deal, and will be just as boring to you as Fred Funk is now.
I will offer an opinion for whatever it is worth. For me, golf as a spectator sport, is enjoyable when I get to see great players facing and overcoming challenges on the course. Driver/wedge players tend to eliminate these challenges. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the modern long ball game, but it IS a different game. Some folks like Indy auto races, some like going to Drag Strips. But they are two different things. The neat thing about golf is that shotmakers and bombers can coexist on the same track, allowing different fans to enjoy different aspects of golf.
I don't mind the fact that the bombers dominate the game, but the ball strikers are certainly still gettin' their share. I love it when a Luke Donald comes out on top.
I had a couple of thoughts that might add something to the discussion. I've read a Hogan quote that said "If I knew then what I know now, I would have been trying to hit the ball in the hole from the fairway." We've all seen Nicklaus (or even Faldo, for a more recent example) strategically pick apart a golf course and win. I believe that this is a lost art, and part of the difference between the players of the past and the players now. Course management mattered more because of the length of the courses. These days the longer courses make the test more one of execution then strategy. This is where I personally believe that Hogan would still have been competitive, because of his precision execution. That being said, a few years ago, I stepped up to the first tee in a mini-tour event with a two iron in my hand, and my playing partner looked at me and said "what the hell are you fixin' to do with that?" I find the statement very compelling about the two shortest courses on tour having high winning scores. Consider the US Open in Tulsa a couple years back with all those doglegs, or the Ryder cup at Valderamma, as support of that observation. Fantastic discussion, thank you all.
I had a couple of thoughts that might add something to the discussion. I've read a Hogan quote that said "If I knew then what I know now, I would have been trying to hit the ball in the hole from the fairway." We've all seen Nicklaus (or even Faldo, for a more recent example) strategically pick apart a golf course and win. I believe that this is a lost art, and part of the difference between the players of the past and the players now. Course management mattered more because of the length of the courses. These days the longer courses make the test more one of execution then strategy. This is where I personally believe that Hogan would still have been competitive, because of his precision execution. That being said, a few years ago, I stepped up to the first tee in a mini-tour event with a two iron in my hand, and my playing partner looked at me and said "what the hell are you fixin' to do with that?" I find the statement very compelling about the two shortest courses on tour having high winning scores. Consider the US Open in Tulsa a couple years back with all those doglegs, or the Ryder cup at Valderamma, as support of that observation. Fantastic discussion, thank you all.
Good post. How would you define "presicion?" Fairways and Greens? or Scoring? There are a lot of rounds that I can remember scoring well, but there are also a lot of round I can remember that I didn't putt well but felt satisfied because tee to green it was good.
Where would you put the "premium"? High rough narrow fairways? Tough greens like Pinehurst? Jack said that the ball should be "standardized." Is that an option?
I would love to see a tournament where the tour guys had to play with 1970's equipment. It would be interesting to see who would rise to the top. My $ would be on Eldrick though.
My father and I argue about how the old players wouldn't make the cut in the modern game. I agree with Jack; the modern game is a game of power. The short ball players only shine like twice a year on short courses with tight fairways. The majority of golf fans do not want shorter courses, tighter fairways, distance resistant balls, or any other restrictions on length. We love watching the best players bomb it long, and flop it onto the greens. In this new era, golf can -almost- be described as a sport.
I think the hype of the power game doesn't match the actual reality of what's going on in professional golf. Yes power counts, but the reality is only 19 players currently on tour average over 300 yards a drive. The median distance for the 190 PGA Tour players that are currently listed for driver distance is about 288 yards. And several guys have won tournaments this year i.e. Luke Donald, Aron Oberholser, Rod Pampling, Kirk Triplett and David Toms, and none of these guys can be described as "bombers".
For all the hype about "bombers" the guys that take home the big checks consistently on the PGA Tour hit the most greens in regulation with fewest putts per round. At the end of the day great golf is still about consistent ball striking and great putting. That hasn't really change as much as people think it has.
just to let eveyone know,the pgatour rules staff and the usga have no clue how to setup a golf course for the tour players.why do you think that adding length to a course makes it play harder,it doesnt.why do you think places like hilton head and wechester have the highest winning scores on tour each year.decision making is why.when you have 490 yard par 4 there is not any decision envolved,just tee it high and let it fly.number 13 at doral is another good example 245 into the wind,wow what a tough decision on what i will hit,it can be only 1 club in my bag 4 wood.good thing the guys at the masters didnt lenthen #12 the guys have enough problem now with a 155 yard shot.
the tour has really changed from the 80s,we use to play with flier lies with rock hard greens.now we have so much rough that you would have to replace your line on your weedeater every 30 min..the truly great strikers of the ball have a huge diadvantage now.when i miss a fairway i am in the thickest rough,when the so called bomber misses he has missed by 20 or more yards,where the gallery has matted the rough if there was any..if the tour went back to having a light rough where you could catch aflier with really firm greens and fast fairways,eveyone would see a big difference in the results on who is winning golf tournaments.then giys would have to think there way around a golf course,which in todays game has been lost.why do you think #17 at tpc is playing so hard,guys have to think,come on it is a really easy shot you are only at the max hitting an 8 iron.
so ther you have it,but it will never happen the tour and the tv networks have certain players they need to keep golf on tv.
John: I agree with your comments . It does seem that if you are going to miss a fairway you are better off missing it by a large margin. Also I agree with you about the TV networks having favourite players and this influencing the game. I was a spotter for ABC at The Open at St George's . When Ben Curtis took the lead the radio went mad with " Who the hell is Ben Curtis " comments . Shortly after he was put on the clock. I thought it was disgusting and undoubtedly a ruse to put him off his game and hand it to Tiger. Can you imagine Tiger being put on the clock just when he took the lead in the final round in a major? It would never happen. The same kind of thing happened to Garido when he was leading the Volvo PGA at Wentworth.
What does a player need to make $$$ wise to make a reasonable living on the US tour? How much does it cost just to play the Tour per year.
just to let eveyone know,the pgatour rules staff and the usga have no clue how to setup a golf course for the tour players.why do you think that adding length to a course makes it play harder,it doesnt.why do you think places like hilton head and wechester have the highest winning scores on tour each year.decision making is why.when you have 490 yard par 4 there is not any decision envolved,just tee it high and let it fly.number 13 at doral is another good example 245 into the wind,wow what a tough decision on what i will hit,it can be only 1 club in my bag 4 wood.good thing the guys at the masters didnt lenthen #12 the guys have enough problem now with a 155 yard shot.
the tour has really changed from the 80s,we use to play with flier lies with rock hard greens.now we have so much rough that you would have to replace your line on your weedeater every 30 min..the truly great strikers of the ball have a huge diadvantage now.when i miss a fairway i am in the thickest rough,when the so called bomber misses he has missed by 20 or more yards,where the gallery has matted the rough if there was any..if the tour went back to having a light rough where you could catch aflier with really firm greens and fast fairways,eveyone would see a big difference in the results on who is winning golf tournaments.then giys would have to think there way around a golf course,which in todays game has been lost.why do you think #17 at tpc is playing so hard,guys have to think,come on it is a really easy shot you are only at the max hitting an 8 iron.
so ther you have it,but it will never happen the tour and the tv networks have certain players they need to keep golf on tv.
Some great points there John. If only they listen and act on the player's feedback. Golf is a thinking person's game.
I think the great players, I mean the cream of the crop e.g. Tiger Woods, would still win no matter how the course is set up. However, as you said, there would be a lot of other players winning if courses were set up like they were 20 years ago.
That's more or less true actually....but Augusta is gonna play 7445 yards.
...I dunno how exactly it'll play....but that's damn long yardage...
I guess we'll have to just wait and see what happens.
Thanks!
I'm waiting for the latest version of the TGM book to come out in April, but I've already learned quite a bit here and I'm eager to learn more.
And once again in the Players Championship a "Bomber" didn't walk off with the trophy. I think Stephen Ames averaged less than 280 yards a drive. He also played one of the best final rounds of golf I've seen in a while.
As far as Augusta I'm with you, I'm very curious to see how the new setup affect scoring and who will play well.
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