Yoda: Your Thoughts on new 12-2-0

[tongzilla]

Yoda,

What are your thoughts on the new 7th edition Basic Swinging Pattern (12-2-0)?

I'm most interested in the change to Roated Shoulder Turn (rather than Standard), Random Sweep Loading (rather than Snap), and Auto Sweep Release (rather than Non-Auto Sweep).

Thanks!

[12 piece bucket]

Yoda,

What are your thoughts on the new 7th edition Basic Swinging Pattern (12-2-0)?

I'm most interested in the change to Roated Shoulder Turn (rather than Standard), Random Sweep Loading (rather than Snap), and Auto Sweep Release (rather than Non-Auto Sweep).

Thanks!

Let's hear yours first coolchiefrocka.

[Yoda]

Yoda,

What are your thoughts on the new 7th edition Basic Swinging Pattern (12-2-0)?

I'm most interested in the change to Roated Shoulder Turn (rather than Standard), Random Sweep Loading (rather than Snap), and Auto Sweep Release (rather than Non-Auto Sweep).

Thanks!

Tongzilla,

I'm pressed for time before the Barclays, so I can't respond in depth now. And I don't yet have the book for any ancillary explanation. So for now, let me say that I think the Rotated Shoulder Turn -- which was not a change in the very accurate 'bootleg' 7th Revisions and Additions -- is problematic because:

1. Its Shiftless Hip Turn (10-14-C) is incompatible with the Slide Hip Turn (10-14-B) variation now designated in the Stroke Patterns;

2. The Shiftless Hip Turn permits no weight Shift, Axis Tilt or Line Delivery Path;

3. It requires a precise Waist Bend in order to locate the Turned Shoulder Plane (and hence give Pivot support to the Power Package);

4. It conflicts with the Basic Motion Curriculum's Flat Shoulder Turn (12-5-2 #2) -- which has a problem of its own (should have been designated 10-13-D, in my opinion); and

5. Homer Kelley's view in his taped Master Classes was that the Rotated Shoulder Turn is useful in the Short Shots but not necessarily otherwise.

I would appreciate it if you would put up your own thoughts and expand on mine as you see things.

Thanks!

[tobell]

Doesn't hip-slide cause secondary axis tilt? I know Homer stated that the rotated-shoulder was primarily for low power and "shiftless" strokes in the 6th edition; did he changes his tune or are there other "shiftless" forces at work--only a true Jedi would know

[Yoda]

Doesn't hip-slide cause secondary axis tilt? I know Homer stated that the rotated-shoulder was primarily for low power and "shiftless" strokes in the 6th edition; did he changes his tune or are there other "shiftless" forces at work -- only a true Jedi would know

Yes, tobell, and that's the problem: The Rotated Shoulder Turn mandates the Shiftless Hip Turn. And no Hip Slide means no Weight Shift (and low Power) and no Axis Tilt. And no Axis Tilt means no On Plane Right Shoulder in the Downstroke (unless the Waist Bend is exactly right) and, also, no possibility of any of the Straight Line Delivery Paths.

Now, a Rotated Shoulder Turn Backstroke can be replaced by an On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke (complete with Hip Slide, Weight Shift, Axix Tilt and Line Delivery Path). But then, it is no longer a Rotated Shoulder Turn.

Bottom line for me is that I would have to see the revision in Homer's own hand.

[tongzilla]

• Getting the right amount of waist bend so that the downstroke turn becomes On Plane creates an un-golf like motion.
  
  
• The Snap Loading Action is probably viewed as too extreme. By placing the loading at the very last instant, it makes the stroke harder to control and deranges the Power Package structure. Note that Random Sweep Loading Action classifies any Loading Point between Full Sweep and Snap. So even if the Loading is performed one inch before the Snap, it is still considered to be a Ramdom Sweep. So, a late Random Sweep will give you the advantages of Drag Loading the Club (by thowing it against Pressure Point #3) without placing undue stress to Stroke.
  
  
• The Auto Sweep Release complies with Homer's notion that "you can practically sleep and Swing!" The idea of triggering Release with deliberate muscular manipulation is more compatible with Hitting than Swinging.

[armourall]

...a Rotated Shoulder Turn Backstroke can be replaced by an On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke (complete with Hip Slide, Weight Shift, Axix Tilt and Line Delivery Path). But then, it is no longer a Rotated Shoulder Turn.

Bottom line for me is that I would have to see the revision in Homer's own hand.

What would be the proper designation for a dual application Rotated Shoulder Turn Backswing/On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke? (10-13-A is the only dual application listed.) I would have to believe that this, if anything, is what Homer Kelley intended, but I can't imagine having an X listed in a Basic Pattern.

[annikan skywalker]

Now, a Rotated Shoulder Turn Backstroke can be replaced by an On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke (complete with Hip Slide, Weight Shift, Axis Tilt and Line Delivery Path). But then, it is no longer a Rotated Shoulder Turn.

Nice observation ......One can have a certain style in the backstroke ...yet another "correcting" motion on the downstroke...Isn't that just awesome!!!! Latitude in Instruction!!!!

[phillygolf]

I personally do not believe Homer would ever advocate rotated shouler turn (or for that matter, rotating) for the average golfer (and I still believe 12-1 and 12-2 were to address the average golfer versus to be the ultimate or uncompensated stroke).

AND....

Snap makes sense entirely to me, given (and no I dont have the book), loading action does match release, plus....snap's timing has to be dead on, else, hook or push, take your pick.

I am with Yoda.

But....that leaves a bigger question unanswered....

Uh oh..............

[golfbulldog]

What would be the proper designation for a dual application Rotated Shoulder Turn Backswing/On Plane Shoulder Turn Downstroke? (10-13-A is the only dual application listed.) I would have to believe that this, if anything, is what Homer Kelley intended, but I can't imagine having an X listed in a Basic Pattern.

I am with you on this one. My reading of 6th edition 10-13-c supports this pattern.

"The downstroke may shift to On Plane for whatever Plane angle or variation is used."

It seems that just as Homer's 6th edition Standard 10-13-A has flat/backstroke and Onplane/ downstoke... rotated 10-13-C alows rotated/backand onplane/downstoke.

It then say that "downstroke use os normally confine dto the shiftless hip turn." but he has already said do what you like on the downstroke!!!

Fine by me

Very modern thinking... most people now have backstroke 90 degrees to spine. Homer changed his mind and his thoughts from 1983 are seen on every tee of every major tour event in the 21 st century!!!

Well done Homer!