Just plane confused!

[neil]

Daryl....



Are you saying that horizontal hinging only applies for small portion of the arc around impact and not the entire swing?

3putt

3putt -Yes!
Once you get to the top left wrist fully cocked ,you do not hinge until after release.If you are swinging using automatic release the Roll is caused by the throw out action of centrifugal force,then at some point the flat left wrist must swivel to finish in order to keep that shaft on plane.

So at takeaway ,body rotation will roll the hands. -clubshaft and #3 pressure point are pointing at the plane line.

When shaft is parallel to the ground it should be parallel to the base of the plane line.

At any point after this until it reaches parallel at the top (if it ever does),then the butt of the club should point at the plane line.

Coming down,butt points at plane until parallel to ground ,when shaft is again parallel to plane.

As soon as the left wrist starts to uncock the shaft then points to the planeline-all the way through impact and followthrough -then at some point you finish swivel-again going parallel to the ground and the plane -after which the butt points at the plane line again .
Don't forget the plane line is INFINTE in both directions -so when the club is close to parallel to the ground-it will be pointing at the plane Miles away from you

Got to go, sorry it was rushed but I'm sure Daryl or Bucket will sort you out

[Amen Corner]

If you are "visual", do not forget about looking at the gallery....

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery...ry.php?cat=517

When I cannot get through to the student......I´ll introduce them to Yoda....

3putt,

Did you watch the videos where Yoda talks about Hinge Action and Swiwel?

[Daryl]

Daryl....



Are you saying that horizontal hinging only applies for small portion of the arc around impact and not the entire swing?

3putt

Basically, as long as the Clubface is "Closing Only" Through Impact, then yes. But notice that you can keep the Plate Vertical to the ground "Closing Only" Through Impact over a 4 foot head start arc, or as I do, over a 1 foot head start arc.

I Swivel and Turn During the Backswing. My Left Wrist is Bent and Cocked at the Top and my Right Wrist is Flat and Level. My Clubface is "Wide Open" as my Left Wrist Uncocks. My Hands are Past the Line of sight to the Ball when I Roll Into Impact. My Right Elbow is at my Navel. Because of this, my Left Wrist is slightly Arched at and After Impact. The Ball doesn't seem to go any Farther, but I like the sound. And "0" Throwaway. Boring type Trajectory, not low. Ball takes off like a bullet straight toward the apex. CF does all of the work. (Almost)

Homer Kelley is all about the Flat Left Wrist throughout the Swing. I can do that too, but my Clubface needs a 4 foot head start to make the Roll into Impact. Same Accuracy. Not the Loudest Sound. Same Distance. But no Less Risky to me. Trajectory Normal. Good Strike, that was nice, so what. I'm not flexible enough to have any less of a lead with a Flat Left Wrist.

You'll find all of this information in the Unabridged version of "The Golfing Machine".

1-K VARIATIONS
"Procedures that are not listed in their categories can, however, be examined and described in some manner understandable to their possessors and so become repeatable. This is the function of the “X” classification as explained in Chapter 10-10. Many variations are not listed in the Catalog simply because they are advisedly teamed with Variations that are listed. Applying them otherwise is a player’s choice and risk, but that does not make them Catalog omissions."

[hg]

This is my last post on this thread unless something really burns me.

Forget about a human golfer for a minute. So there are no hands and therefore no grip.

Go to Mathews animation 422-1-L_Hinges_LBG (I'm not sure how to post the link). Stop it at the 2 sec mark. Cock the "wrists" (its not drawn on there but imagine a hinge pin half way down the arm....just like the golfers flail 2-K#5 Vertical wrist motion)

As soon as you cock the wrist, the clubshaft no longer points as the plane line. That is what I have been trying to say all along. How do you horizontal hinge and cock your wrists and stay on plane all at the same time? I tried to rationalize it with wrist turn (I think Yoda has also referred to it as startup swivel)

So there are only 3 paths forward:
a) someone acknowledges my point.
b) someone tells me why I am wrong (please!!!)
c) I call enough enough and move on from TGM, being all the wiser for what I have learned the last month.

Thanks.

WOW...this cat is ready to walk away....after one month....dude...you have found where the gold is hidden ....digging is never easy but you have help here...and once you uncover it ...you will have it for a lifetime....as Tommy said " This shit isn't easy...understanding the words is the hard part...the motion is the easy part." Sorry if this burns you...I couldn't help myself...but it did make me chuckle

[Mathew]

This is my last post on this thread unless something really burns me.

Forget about a human golfer for a minute. So there are no hands and therefore no grip.

Go to Mathews animation 422-1-L_Hinges_LBG (I'm not sure how to post the link). Stop it at the 2 sec mark. Cock the "wrists" (its not drawn on there but imagine a hinge pin half way down the arm....just like the golfers flail 2-K#5 Vertical wrist motion)

As soon as you cock the wrist, the clubshaft no longer points as the plane line. That is what I have been trying to say all along. How do you horizontal hinge and cock your wrists and stay on plane all at the same time? I tried to rationalize it with wrist turn (I think Yoda has also referred to it as startup swivel)

So there are only 3 paths forward:
a) someone acknowledges my point.
b) someone tells me why I am wrong (please!!!)
c) I call enough enough and move on from TGM, being all the wiser for what I have learned the last month.

Thanks.

Thanks for the interest in my video.

Homer Kelley used the 1-L diagram primarily to provide a visual to the concepts listed.

The 1-L model only has similarities to the way that the power package structure in the human machine works within a real golf stroke. The power package has to take accumulators out of line inorder to move the clubhead according to the physics that God designed and Newton discovered. The power accumulators work simultaneously displacing the clubhead towards this goal. The 1-L model by its design does not have to contend with this issue, however the resulting effect between the two models is identical.

The flail that is described in 2-K has a swivel joint and is not merely a hinge pin added on the 1-L model. The swivel joint or accumulator no.3 is nessesary to move the clubhead onplane using the design of the human golfers power package structure.

Do not underestimate Homer Kelley's understanding of the golf stroke. If we followed your interpretation of 1-L in the post - angled hinging would take place at right angles to the inclined plane and vertical hinging would see the club parallel to the ground !!!! Surely after all those years Homer Kelley put into studying the golf stroke that you can at least credit him with a better conception than that!

Hope that helps....

[Mathew]

So imagine a ball down there on the ground on the plane. The sweetspot is traveling down and out and forward ON-PLANE. (Remember the a vertical plane would only have DOWN and UP. A horizontal plane would only have IN and OUT). Since we are on an Inclined Plane the clubmoves in 3 dimensions (Down, Out, and Forward ALL ON PLANE).

You are correct that - The club travels on a 2 dimensional inclined plane but in reference to the horizontal plane (the ground) the club travels in 3 dimensions. You are correct that when refering to the vertical and horizontal planes with reference to the horizontal plane these planes will have only two dimensions.

You are incorrect that - The vertical plane has Upwards and Downwards as its two dimensions because unfortunately those two are the same dimension - just think of a piece of paper with an x and y axis. The club can move upwards and downwards (one dimension) but it can also move forwards and backwards (two dimensions).

So imagine the club and sweetspot traveling down and out on plane and then touching the ball. Through that point Homer drew a line parallel to the ground from the Impact Point and named it the Impact Plane Line.

A tip - if you are going to tell the existance of a geometrical line you should say exactly how to draw that line. What your saying here is correct but incomplete because just stating a line goes through a point parallel to the ground without referencing that this line is on the face of the inclined plane to establish its forward direction isn't helpful.

The club and its sweetspot CONTINUE Down and Out ON PLANE AFTER IMPACT POINT UNTIL THE SWEETSPOT REACHES ITS LOWEST POINT----OPPOSITE THE LEFT SHOULDER THE CENTER OF THE STROKE.

Actually, no it doesn't. This would be true if the left shoulder was stationary, however in the golf stroke the left shoulder is moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction and this brings the low point backwards somewhat.

I would of let this slide if you had said "for concept purposes" like you did earlier but this holds no such disclaimer.

From the lowest point Homer drew a line and called it the LOW POINT PLANE LINE. For an iron shot the Low Point Plane Line is actually UNDERGROUND. So ALL STROKES SHOULD BE DRIVEN THROUGH IMPACT POINT AND CONTINUE DOWN AND OUT ON PLANE THROUGH LOW POINT.

This would be correct assuming the sweetspot gets underground which if it does your probably in trouble. The clubhead is bigger than the sweetspot you know .

After low point since the arms are connected to the shoulders the club begins to trave UP AND IN ON PLANE . . . but he effort is still down.

Again misquoting the book and/or misunderstanding the concept, the effort is not downwards in relation to the horizontal plane but downwards in relation to the inclined plane.

Part 2 - coming soon - Sorry Bucket - whahahaha

[okie]

I'm popping me some corn for this one!

[Yoda]

The club and its sweetspot CONTINUE Down and Out ON PLANE AFTER IMPACT POINT UNTIL THE SWEETSPOT REACHES ITS LOWEST POINT----OPPOSITE THE LEFT SHOULDER THE CENTER OF THE STROKE.

Actually, no it doesn't. This would be true if the left shoulder was stationary, however in the golf stroke the left shoulder is moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction and this brings the low point backwards somewhat.

Mathew,

Does your statement assume the Left Shoulder's Adjusted Address location? If so, would "opposite the Left Shoulder at Impact Fix" satisfactorily locate Low Point?

[Mike O]

You are correct that - The club travels on a 2 dimensional inclined plane but in reference to the horizontal plane (the ground) the club travels in 3 dimensions. You are correct that when refering to the vertical and horizontal planes with reference to the horizontal plane these planes will have only two dimensions.

You are incorrect that - The vertical plane has Upwards and Downwards as its two dimensions because unfortunately those two are the same dimension - just think of a piece of paper with an x and y axis. The club can move upwards and downwards (one dimension) but it can also move forwards and backwards (two dimensions).



A tip - if you are going to tell the existance of a geometrical line you should say exactly how to draw that line. What your saying here is correct but incomplete because just stating a line goes through a point parallel to the ground without referencing that this line is on the face of the inclined plane to establish its forward direction isn't helpful.



Actually, no it doesn't. This would be true if the left shoulder was stationary, however in the golf stroke the left shoulder is moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction and this brings the low point backwards somewhat.

I would of let this slide if you had said "for concept purposes" like you did earlier but this holds no such disclaimer.



This would be correct assuming the sweetspot gets underground which if it does your probably in trouble. The clubhead is bigger than the sweetspot you know .



Again misquoting the book and/or misunderstanding the concept, the effort is not downwards in relation to the horizontal plane but downwards in relation to the inclined plane.

Part 2 - coming soon - Sorry Bucket - whahahaha

I didn't hear that Matthew was released!? Usually, they notify me on these things. And that ankle bracelet was suppose to work if you logged into a TGM site- I'll have to check that out. Oh ya- that Bucket is my whipping boy- hands off!

[Mike O]

Matthew Quote:
However in the golf stroke the left shoulder is moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction and this brings the low point backwards somewhat.

Actually, not necessarily. This would be true if the left shoulder was moving in its own little orbit that contains an upwards direction IF the left arm/club was perpendicular to the shoulder line. The fact that it's normally not- "leans forward" i.e. the arm hasn't come across the chest completely, creates an offsetting factor. Also, you are assuming that there is no other downward movement of the clubhead as a result of the wrist uncocking or any other downward motion affecting the clubhead.

I would of let this slide if you had said "for concept purposes" or if you assumed a fixed "arm - club" perpendicular to the shoulder line (don't get nit picky on the perpendicular- if you need more details I'll supply it) but this holds no such disclaimer.

Should we go on Okie? Or do you need a moment to get a beer out of the fridge?