Im done trying to explain the differeence between weight and Lag. Swing the clubhead, SEC
And if you watch that video- you will not believe what you see. Your Hands are not as educated as you think if they need to micro manage a pivot. A correct take-away requires a turn. A down stroke requires a turn. And the Hands do NOT move themsleves at the very start- if they do they are way to active and might nopt find On PLANE by themselves. If they don't move themselves- what does?
Take starting at impact fix. Cetainly the hands don't move themselves at the start. (they are frozen) Elbow, forearms guided by the brain to the nerves in the hands - hands knowing all along that the plane line must be traced. Body then responds.
There is no "muscle memory" in the hips that enables them to correctly turn in a precise fashion (or in shoulders, or in any part of any human).
That's just it with the hands controlled pivot. Do you move with brain attention to the hands or the hips or the shoulders? You can hit the ball by doing both. What method will be more precise? There is a reason why you do most everything in life through your hands.
Im done trying to explain the differeence between weight and Lag.
I think i have it reconciled. Gravity, in a similar fashion to force exerted against the club (a force that is different from club head lag pressure) though Pressure points (for hand movement, resulting in club movement), is exterted against the clubhead. This is a change to the inert club head. The result of this change is pressure that is sensed by the hands. You may obtain clubhead feel through this pressure. Maintain it and create more by continuing to change, or drive the club head by moving the hands (as stated above, hand movement said knowing hands are indeed moved by pressure from accumulators) and allow the hands to sense it.
I think i have it reconciled. Gravity, in a similar fashion to force exerted against the club (a force that is different from club head lag pressure) though Pressure points (for hand movement, resulting in club movement), is exterted against the clubhead. This is a change to the inert club head. The result of this change is pressure that is sensed by the hands. You may obtain clubhead feel through this pressure. Maintain it and create more by continuing to change, or drive the club head by moving the hands (as stated above, hand movement said knowing hands are indeed moved by pressure from accumulators) and allow the hands to sense it.
Again- not a feel the clubhead swing the clubhead thing with TGM Educated Hands. I only have an INTUITIVE sense of the clubhead because I monitor Pressure Points and maintain my Flying Wedges ON PLANE. I never feel its WEIGHT because I"m cranking. But my Hands know everything. That is the only feel I need. Don't spend so much time feeling DEAD weight and learn to mash down on the ball with your spent Power Package.
You really have this whole hand pressure accumulator thing a bit azz backwards. Hands are clamps to hold the club with the ability to monitor three pressure points. If you want to flatten the right wrist, have a real nice throw-Away flip and bust up your Flying Wedges then push against this pressure with any of the accumultors. Power flows from the accumulators. If you are a Swinger- Throw Accumultors 4, 2, and 3. Throw -OUT. Throw with a geometrically correct Left Hip Slide that allows the right shoulder to deliver the Load Power Package correctly Down plane into Impact.
Or, Feel the clubhead's dead weight and dance with the shaft.
Take starting at impact fix. Cetainly the hands don't move themselves at the start. (they are frozen) Elbow, forearms guided by the brain to the nerves in the hands - hands knowing all along that the plane line must be traced. Body then responds.
There is no "muscle memory" in the hips that enables them to correctly turn in a precise fashion (or in shoulders, or in any part of any human).
That's just it with the hands controlled pivot. Do you move with brain attention to the hands or the hips or the shoulders? You can hit the ball by doing both. What method will be more precise? There is a reason why you do most everything in life through your hands.
A well trained pivot allows the hands to do what is important. Go to the ball.
You say the Hands know the line to trace- then the Body responds. When does it respond- after the Hands move on their own or after the pivot starts or when?
Again- not a feel the clubhead swing the clubhead thing with TGM Educated Hands. I only have an INTUITIVE sense of the clubhead because I monitor Pressure Points and maintain my Flying Wedges ON PLANE. I never feel its WEIGHT because I"m cranking. But my Hands know everything. That is the only feel I need. Don't spend so much time feeling DEAD weight and learn to mash down on the ball with your spent Power Package.
You really have this whole hand pressure accumulator thing a bit azz backwards. Hands are clamps to hold the club with the ability to monitor three pressure points. If you want to flatten the right wrist, have a real nice throw-Away flip and bust up your Flying Wedges then push against this pressure with any of the accumultors. Power flows from the accumulators. If you are a Swinger- Throw Accumultors 4, 2, and 3. Throw -OUT. Throw with a geometrically correct Left Hip Slide that allows the right shoulder to deliver the Load Power Package correctly Down plane into Impact.
Or, Feel the clubhead's dead weight and dance with the shaft.
Didn't watch the video, oh well.
How are you monitering Pressure? What pressure are you monitering?
7-19 "Correct club head Lag pressure "Feel" constant loading constant direction. Interesting mention of flattening right wrist (out of left field)..
Again 7-19 Incorrect Clubhead lag pressure "feel" (read SENSING BY THE Hands) does not set up steady driving pressure....but THROWING pressure, guaranteeing Clubhead Trowaway" (and resulting flattening of right wrist). You have to constantly feel it, or you are risking throw away, losing clubhead control.
I know you will vehemently deny, but I'll suggest your mind hasn't completely abandoned the incorrect idea that clubhead lag pressure is driving the hands in order to keep them in front of the club head. I know you have written it is not just keeping the hands in front of the clubhead. Learning to mash down on the ball is release of accumualtors. How do you direct the force to be released by accumulators? Control the force? By paying constant attention to club head lag pressure(in the end, remember, it is the shaft and the clubhead have to on plane - so you have to be able to control this - most precise control is by hands). How do you learn not to throw the force away? By learning that you have maintained clubhead lag pressure (through constant sensing, not losing feel)
Hands driven by pressure produced by power accumulators (leading to hands in front of club head) is not clubhead lag pressure. Driving the hands does produce a change in the clubhead. Direction OR (note or) acceleration can be the change. The hands feel the club head by sensing the pressure produced by this change. This is the only way in the world you can hit the ball with hands (a connection to the clubhead).
I do feel the club head so I can control direction and acceleration.
"Don't spend so much time feeling DEAD weight and learn to mash down on the ball with your spent Power Package." Over the top waiting to happen.
You must accept clubhead lag pressure and continue to feel it. For a while, don't think of clubhead lag pressure as scientific term. He said it is the "Secret to Golf". It's pressure or force. Easy enough. Why would you want to have this pressure? What are you trying to do with this pressure?
Per 6-C-2-0 you are sensing CLUBHEAD acceleration rate and direction.
And you'd like to direct premium attention to smashing down on the ball with a spent power package? Maybe a smashing down on the ball while first having the ability to control acceleration rate and direction.
How does the education of a golfer come about? By being a able to hit the ball with the hands, by knowing when he's done so and when he hasn't. Only through clubhead feel.
You're thinking that I have it backwards is why it is important to study how clubhead lag pressure is established, to study the definition (change - change in direction or acceleration), and to study when it is established. Understand the why the 6-C-2-0 picture is correct as is (at top with clubhead lag). Driving of hands - you are able to maintain ESTABLISHED clubhead lag pressure, or clubhead feel.
A well trained pivot allows the hands to do what is important. Go to the ball.
You say the Hands know the line to trace- then the Body responds. When does it respond- after the Hands move on their own or after the pivot starts or when?
I'm a piece of sheet. Swing the clubhead dude.
Really, really. I'm not trying to argue. This has been a very, very good discussion. Obviously, I know you know a lot of TGM. I've done my fair share of study and memorizing this site. I don't think my tone (or didn't intend) to warrent "dude" and guilt trips "I'm a piece of sheet".
It is definitely not "Tomasello only" for me. I'm very on board with what the professionals on this site say.
I'm not sold on the uncocking of the right forearm terminology. What I can say with certainty is that from the top, the hands know the line they must trace - through training - obviously the hands screw up at times, or the pivot is faulty (due to pivot control) and screw up the hands. At the least, the hands' intent or knowing the line they must trace causes the hip slide. I'd say focus your mind on hand plane line tracing and let the hips respond.
Why wouldn't you train the pivot? Train it, get it ready to respond to the hands ( maybe the term is "oil it up").
Really, really. I'm not trying to argue. This has been a very, very good discussion. Obviously, I know you know a lot of TGM. I've done my fair share of study and memorizing this site. I don't think my tone (or didn't intend) to warrent "dude" and guilt trips "I'm a piece of sheet".
It is definitely not "Tomasello only" for me. I'm very on board with what the professionals on this site say.
I'm not sold on the uncocking of the right forearm terminology. What I can say with certainty is that from the top, the hands know the line they must trace - through training - obviously the hands screw up at times, or the pivot is faulty (due to pivot control) and screw up the hands. At the least, the hands' intent or knowing the line they must trace causes the hip slide. I'd say focus your mind on hand plane line tracing and let the hips respond.
Why wouldn't you train the pivot? Train it, get it ready to respond to the hands ( maybe the term is "oil it up").
I believe the pivot needs to be trained first before you learn a hand-controlled swing. Tracing the plane line with the hands will not automatically cause the hips to slide. You can trace a plane line with the arms moving from the shoulders only and no pivot.
Tomasello covers the pivot in his first Australian video.
Really, really. I'm not trying to argue. This has been a very, very good discussion. Obviously, I know you know a lot of TGM. I've done my fair share of study and memorizing this site. I don't think my tone (or didn't intend) to warrent "dude" and guilt trips "I'm a piece of sheet".
It is definitely not "Tomasello only" for me. I'm very on board with what the professionals on this site say.
I'm not sold on the uncocking of the right forearm terminology. What I can say with certainty is that from the top, the hands know the line they must trace - through training - obviously the hands screw up at times, or the pivot is faulty (due to pivot control) and screw up the hands. At the least, the hands' intent or knowing the line they must trace causes the hip slide. I'd say focus your mind on hand plane line tracing and let the hips respond.
Why wouldn't you train the pivot? Train it, get it ready to respond to the hands ( maybe the term is "oil it up").
If you're not sold on the uncocking of the right forearm from the top.....do you really understand longitudinal acceleration.
What is the dictionary definition of longitudinal that best describes its application to the golf swing?
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 06-03-2007 at 10:59 AM.
DG- not absolutes, just trying to explain TGM 12-1-0 and 12-2-0. Yoda and Hull do a great job. You cannot find this information of Tomesello's video. He doesn't pull. Even a Hitter was a strong 'twitch' pull to set up the hands.
Im done trying to explain the differeence between weight and Lag. Swing the clubhead, SEC
And if you watch that video- you will not believe what you see. Your Hands are not as educated as you think if they need to micro manage a pivot. A correct take-away requires a turn. A down stroke requires a turn. And the Hands do NOT move themsleves at the very start- if they do they are way to active and might nopt find On PLANE by themselves. If they don't move themselves- what does?
Mike,
Above is another pot shot on Tomasello. Do you really believe the videos of Tommy are the complete Tomasello on TGM? NO FRICKIN WAY. At the very least, Tommy had three complete schools to offer students on TGM. Swinging school, Hitting School, and advanced school (applying swinging and hitting to the course). For me, that approach makes the most sense. I believe that's where Tommy's real genius came into play. The vision of a hitting and swinging approach to the game. MAXIMUM TGM with the most efficient and full power stroke patterns in the book. Applying full power and accuracy. As the only Taylor Made slogan use to go...."DON'T HOLD BACK".
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 06-03-2007 at 11:08 AM.
Above is another pot shot on Tomasello. Do you really believe the videos of Tommy that are on this site is all that he had to offer regarding TGM. NO FRICKIN WAY. At the very least, Tommy had three complete schools to offer students on TGM. Swinging school, Hitting School, and advanced school (applying swinging and hitting to the course).
DG
DG - If you have more material from Tom than what has been hosted on this site, it might be helpful to share it as well. We only have a limited view on what you've shared thus far.
6B is not taking potshots at Tom. I think he has a high level of respect.
Hard to talk about the whole elephant when all we can see is the trunk.
I would be happy to open up a spot for an MP3 of the tape or any other materials.
I think there is a lot more to Tommy than what meets the eye.
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