Even Homer says Golf is 90% physics.
Do you seriously believe Geometry drives the swing?
Why is it that the world's scoring average has gone out 1 shot, should this improve.
We are all barking up the your tree.
What creates geometry, how do we create these angles etc?
Easy physics and movement patterns. How can you apply geometry when people can't even move their body effective or create the right movement patterns.
Golf's scoring average would go down if people learnt physics as well as geometry
I never said Geometry "Drives" the swing. I simply asked a question which you still haven't responded to. Where does the 90% figure come from?
Daryl,
Not those type of physics, human motion physics.
The club moves around the axis of the spine.
If you learn to apply the right movement patterns or Kinetic Link. The club will move around the axis of the spine.
The only geometry needed is squaring the face up at impact and knowing how to align your body square to the target.
Golf is 90% physics ( Movement patterns)
Ok, I understand your meaning.
You say Kinetic-Link, Human Motion. To TGM, Motion is Geometry, Action is Physics.
The Kinetic Link term includes Geometry and Physics. We strive to separate the Motion from the Work it performs and then Align them to create the greatest possible force and direct that force to the ball. To us, "Hip Motion" is the way the Hips move or Don't move and whether they Allow or Prevent other motions from occurring. "Hip Action" is the work that Hips perform such as Driving the Right Shoulder.
Foot Action, knee, Hip, Right Shoulder, Right Triceps, Elbow, Wrist, and Hand, ALL have Actions which have Centers and are Linked in the Kinetic Chain. We recognize their substantial contribution but realize that they aren't enough for us. We need more P-o-w-e-r. We Have Accumulators. (All Golf Swings have Accumulators; it's my sense of humor)
So, TGM states there can be a significant amount of Motion but that Motion itself doesn't contribute Force to the Ball. You need the Kinetic Linking of Actions. These Motions and Actions need to be Sequenced and Aligned in such a way to bring Maximum Force Upon the Ball through the Impact Interval.
If you say that the Kinetic Link will produce most of the Alignments necessary we would also agree. We call this "Pivot Controlled Hands". The Body, through the Kinetic Link will produce all the Force, Motion and Alignments needed to Hit the Ball. It's How most Golfers try to Swing.
We don't say that the Physics are secondary. Without Action, the Kinetic Link, you can't have Golf (or any sport). We only say that Actions need Alignments and Actions and Alignments can and should be directed. Starting with the Feet, moving up the Kinetic chain all the way to the Clubhead, the more Force the Better. The greater these Forces become as the Swing progresses, much, much better. Align and direct these Forces by controlling the Clubshaft, Clubhead and Clubface, the Best. But then you're back to TGM, and that's what we try to do. We don't simply want to hit the Ball Far, but we want to make the Ball do, what we want it to do.
Maybe Homer Kelley is the Father of "Human Motion Physics", the "Kinetic Link", "Biomechanics of Golf". Any one of those Tag Lines would be comfortable on the Cover of the little Yellow Book.
Daryl,
Since I was a boy i was taught TGM although had great physics before I was introduce to TGM.
People highly regard my ball striking abilities I can play the game.
This is my question.
TGM doesn't teach an instructor or student how to apply physics and dynamics.
TGM doesn't teach us how to train our body to create a kinetic link.
How to create conservation of momentum or how to load and fire our muscles.
This is a specialized field within it's self.
TGM doesn't teach us how to train movement patterns or how to create them and trying to hold and create angles isn't going to teach us this.
I respect Homer and his work although to many instructors and students get caught up on Geometry.
Homer gives us an understanding of the geometry although the physics on how it's applied homer doesn't elaborate on.
There's no mention of short/stretch cycle or neuromechanics.
How to train the body or how the body functions.
We are flesh and bone, not levers and hinges.
I think people should open up there eyes and minds. Look beyond the Yellow book it's only one part of the full story.
Last edited by bioengine : 08-01-2009 at 12:01 PM.
Drewitgolf,
Not sure you can have access to the Research, Science there's tons of information on golf biomecahnics on regarding physics.
Human motion (biomechanics) is based on physics.
Homer speaks about this topic on his tapes he recorded, there's 120 hours worth and i'm not sure you can get uour hand on this either very few people have copies.
Drewitgolf,
Not sure you can have access to the Research, Science there's tons of information on golf biomecahnics on regarding physics.
Human motion (biomechanics) is based on physics.
Homer speaks about this topic on his tapes he recorded, there's 120 hours worth and i'm not sure you can get uour hand on this either very few people have copies.
I have spent many hundreds of hours listening to Mr. Kelley's work and I don't ever recall hearing him say that.
These are all just words and words have meaning and some of you haven't the faintest clue what those long established widely accepted meanings are.
Physics specifically a BRANCH of physics called MECHANICS pertains to the study of forces and motion. Isssac Newton is the father of that branch of physics. He invented calculus to describe it and he wrote the Principia.... CREDIT WHERE DUE.
MECHANICS is subdivided in to STATICS AND DYNAMICS. Dynamics is the study of MOTION including the FORCES which cause that motion. KINEMATICS is the study of MOTION withOUT regards to forces.... some might say KINEMATICS is what TGM calls GEOMETRY (but GEOMETRY IS A BRANCH OF MATHEMATICS which dates back at least 5000 years to Summeria... Homer is not the father of Geometry)
The latest buzz word making its way around the misguided golf world is "Kinetic Chain"... Some people foolishly speak about "Snapping their Kinetic Chain". They are clueless. There is an entire discipline devoted to the study of what these know-it-alls call the kinetic chain called: MECHANISMS. The study of MECHANISMS (in this case the human mechanism) involves how to create a desired motion including the DYNAMICS and KINEMATICS (forces and Geometry)
GOLF IS NOT about Conservation of Momentum (angular or linear). The physicist that advised Dante and started misunderstanding GOT IT WRONG. Chochran and Stobbs GOT IT WRONG. The golfer is NOT a body subject to a CENTRAL FORCE.
The GOAL of a golfer is to get the club head properly oriented and moving on the optimal path with the highest possible velocity. When the mass of the club head meets the mass of the ball MOMENTUM is transfered from the club head to the ball. Everything else is bullcaca.
TGM doesn't teach an instructor or student how to apply physics and dynamics.
TGM doesn't teach us how to train our body to create a kinetic link.
How to create conservation of momentum or how to load and fire our muscles.
This is a specialized field within it's self.
TGM doesn't teach us how to train movement patterns or how to create them and trying to hold and create angles isn't going to teach us this.
I respect Homer and his work although to many instructors and students get caught up on Geometry.
Homer gives us an understanding of the geometry although the physics on how it's applied homer doesn't elaborate on.
There's no mention of short/stretch cycle or neuromechanics.
How to train the body or how the body functions.
We are flesh and bone, not levers and hinges.
I think people should open up there eyes and minds. Look beyond the Yellow book it's only one part of the full story.
Don't forget that when Homer was young, one was taught to swim by being abandoned in the middle of a lake.
It would have been helpful if HK had some Bio-Mechanics in the Book. I think his attention was focused on his Theories and Concepts.
Chapter 14
Quote:
“Geometry and Physics must be clearly differentiated. “Alignments” (relationships) are Geometry. “Work” (energy) is Physics (Chapter 2). Together they constitute “Mechanics” – structurally “fixed” geometry and physics (1-L). “Feel” is the body’s equivalent to structuring and its foundation is the Educated Hands (5-0).”
The GOAL of a golfer is to get the club head properly oriented and moving on the optimal path with the highest possible velocity. When the mass of the club head meets the mass of the ball MOMENTUM is transfered from the club head to the ball. Everything else is bullcaca.
Is "Bullcaca" a Physics Term?
It's about time someone said that (but don't use "highest possible velocity" short putts). That's exactly what I was going to say. Except the last paragraph needs a few words about the Clubface motion through the Impact Zone otherwise I'll be talking to the Drink Cart Girl while you're looking for your ball.
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