the knees - another accumulator

[slicer mcgolf]

TGM has been fairly content with the 4 accumulators, however, with the increased science behind movement patterns and ground reaction forces....... could the knees be considered an accumulator?

All accumulators create stored energy which is then released: flexion and extension of the knee joint.

All accumulators have pressure points in which they are driven into or against: the feet into the ground!

I had this discussion with an oldschool TGM'er who described the knee antion as part of what drives the pivot, and therefore is part of ACC4. It made sense.. at the time.

ACC4 is more of a rotaty pressure which increases not because the arm is forcing itself on the chest, but because the ribcage/chest/upper torso is driving into the arm.

If the knees flex and extend along a vertical plane, then can assist the rotation but it isn't fully rotation.

So what would make them NOT be considered a Power Accumulator?

Would Brian Gay's impact position (and Ricky Folwer BTW - legs almost fully extended) not show us that he has increased the angle in his knee flex therefore using the ground to accumulate and release energy ?

[BerntR]

I think you have a point here. Straightening the right knee does something very similar to the pivot as straightening the right elbow does to the primary & secondary lever assembly. And straightening the left knee does some of the same. Depending on knee action of course.

But the feet are in this regard pure power generators as there is no power generated below the knees to accumulate and release later. They do not release stored energy. They just work the pivot and the levers.

The power accumulators release stored energy. They transmit accumulated energy from the moving pivot and delivers it to the ball. And some of this energy was produced by the knees stretching.

While the power accumulators don't really accumulate power, they are the enablers of accumulated energy being transformed to force & speed through the ball. And to some extent they are power sources themselves.

There's plenty of mentioning of the role of the pivot and the feet in the book. The power generat from the large bodyparts aren't neglected at all.

[KevCarter]

Hi Slicer,

"Vertical Ground Forces" are a big part of the golf swing, and are taught in many different ways. Homer Kelley once said that he expected the golf swing to continue evolving for all time. That doesn't necessarily mean he expected us to redefine the structure of his work.

IMHO, the Power Package and it's Accumulators and Pressure Points are very well defined, and understood by anyone who studies the work. I don't think the definitions need to be messed with.

On the other hand, what a great add on for instructors who understand it!

I never understood what I was supposed to feel through the ground, and how powerful it could be until YODA showed me the basic MacDonald drills, specifically the one dealing with Left-Right-Left-Right. What an eye opener! There were times of course over my career that I had the "feeling", but until YODA I didn't understand why.

My opinion may not be popular in this new high tech world of teaching, but I want to learn the Machine as Homer Kelley intended, then go from there and form my own opinions. Believe me, I read and try to understand EVERYTHING I can, and I always come back to this basic structure.

Kevin

[slicer mcgolf]

Kev, I agree. I enjoy sticking to what HK describes and keeping it 'pure'

It does keep things simple.

The purpose of posing this question on this site is so that the true machinists here can give me their feedback as to how they see it. I mean... if accumulators are power sources with associated pressure points, the knees fall into this assumption.

I don't mean to say the yellow book is wrong - just a fun discussion!

[KevCarter]

Kev, I agree. I enjoy sticking to what HK describes and keeping it 'pure'

It does keep things simple.

The purpose of posing this question on this site is so that the true machinists here can give me their feedback as to how they see it. I mean... if accumulators are power sources with associated pressure points, the knees fall into this assumption.

I don't mean to say the yellow book is wrong - just a fun discussion!

I understand my friend, just my opinion on what I agree is an interesting topic for discussion.

Cheers,
Kevin

[12 piece bucket]

The Knees are a component of the Pivot . . . I understand how people could think that the knees spine etc. would be an "accumulator" . . . some have described this as the 5th accumulator. However . . . if we are going to talk Machine we must restrict our discussion to the components as defined by Mr. Kelley. See Chapter 6 . . .

The Power Package isolates and DEFINES the function of the HANDS AND ARMS in propelling the clubhead into inpmact. So the knees and spine AIN'T a part of the Power Package . . . but they do have a function in regard of delivering/powering via the #4 pressure point.

Force is applied to the ball through Lever Assemblies. Power is applied to Lever Assemblies through Pressure Points. Power is applied to the Pressure Points by Power Accumulators.

Soooo . . . Mr. Kelley defined the Lever Assemblies/Power Package in such away that DID NOT include the Knees and spine. So they don't get to be called an "accumulator" . . . HOWEVER.. . . that DON'T reduce their IMPORTANCE . . .and BEYOND that . . . it certainly DON'T mean that Mr. Kelley didn't understand their importance and/or how they WORK. See swinging from the feet . . . . this could be "incomplete" from a biomechanics/kenetics point of view . . . BUT . . . let's give Mr. Kelley a huge amount of credit for being waaaaaaaaay ahead of his time. He may not have given us all the details with regards to joint function etc. . . . but he nailed a TON of it from a conceptual stand point. Ground breaking stuff . . .