Ok dude....you are swinging perfectly to smack some quackers...
Not the circle on your hands at address....you make a pretty nice "on-plane" backstroke....if you like that hand path (which I don't)....but one of your issues is clubface...it's shut...note in the impact frame you are raising up the handle over your hand circle...that shifts the plane to the right...but your face is shut...so you probably are gonna hit pushes and snappers....
Note how you steepen the shaft as your start down with your hands coming over the shaft plane at address...then you are a good enough player that you know you gotta attack the inside of the ball...so the shaft starts to shallow/fall back later which shifts the plane right and your hands are out away from you more...some due to you being a goat humping handle raiser...your hands are working out to the ball rather than the clubhead...the clubhead is falling back and under....note how your right knee is shooting at the ball...you are screwing farm animals and moving your head back...raising the handle up....
So how to fix????
My suggestion would be....the following
1. Gotta Fix the face...but you got that face because of your release motion and pivot so you can hit it on the course (sometimes)
2. Your wedge alignments are jacked up ...you are arching your left wrist... you need to do a search on wedges out here...there's plenty of great info on how the wedges work...but that archy deall is shutting your face (but you are arching so you don't push the ball off the map)
3. I like the way you swing your hands over the original backstroke plane...that would generally be the natural order of things....BUT that over move doesn't work from where your hands are at the top....They need to be much much lower and DEEPER...if you get your hands below the line of your shoulders you can work your right shoulder over/out to the ball and not bring your hands out and over that circle....
4. Once you get the hand path better on the backstroke...you can then work the CLUBHEAD OUT TO THE BALL AND NOT THE HANDS...look at the picture on the down stroke were the club is parallel to the ground...imagine that the butt cap had a light shining out of it...that light should be starting to look back AT YOU there NOT LOOKING DOWN THE LINE AND THEN UP IN THE SKY...that's cuz you got the clubfalling behind and under to the ball rather than the handle end working toward you while the clubhead is working OUT TO THE BALL ON PLANE...
5. One thing that will help your goat humping handle raising is feeling like you got a flash light shoved up your butthole...the way your are pivoting now you start shining the light from your butthole to the ground...you need to be mooning or shining your butthole light back behind you as you GO FOWARD...
6. Get your head to stop loading right....feel like you are looking UNDERNEATH THE FRONT PART OF THE BALL on the backstroke not the back part...
keep it real and film it again....stop looking at big boobs on youtube and fix your game...you got a nice golf stroke!
-#5 is best practiced in the dark and you'll need a spotter....
To answer your question to me above. Forget about where the ball is vis a vis your left foot. Its the balls placement relative to your left shoulder that determines where it is vis a vis low point. For a driver it should be at or perhaps slightly in front of low point. In front of meaning that you'll be hitting Up , IN and Forward which assuming a square face will give you a slight fade unless you Rotate your Plane Line to the Right and Rotate the Grip so the face stays square. Position the ball at low point to start, under your left shoulder. Preview Impact in Fix while checking your grip to make sure youre not closing the face in the process. On video check to see if your left shoulder hits its impact fix position dynamically if it doesnt the geometry has changed.
-#5 is best practiced in the dark and you'll need a spotter....
To answer your question to me above. Forget about where the ball is vis a vis your left foot. Its the balls placement relative to your left shoulder that determines where it is vis a vis low point. For a driver it should be at or perhaps slightly in front of low point. In front of meaning that you'll be hitting Up , IN and Forward which assuming a square face will give you a slight fade unless you Rotate your Plane Line to the Right and Rotate the Grip so the face stays square. Position the ball at low point to start, under your left shoulder. Preview Impact in Fix while checking your grip to make sure youre not closing the face in the process. On video check to see if your left shoulder hits its impact fix position dynamically if it doesnt the geometry has changed.
Problem is he is dynamically moving low point back by moving the center of his shoulder turn back and shifting the plane out to the right.....Hips and center of shoulder turn backing up...note how he makes the pine tree in set up disappear behind his head...looks like a fight to get underneath a shut face....this cat has some talent...time to get the vectors to line up via handpath, wedge alignment and pivot fix...working underneath with a shut face leads to some volatility....cat looks like a big strong mannnnnnn....could be dangerous if he got his junk to stay centered and sling out rather than sling under ....
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Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-26-2011 at 11:50 AM.
Just a little tip from me to spice up the analysis by the two accomplished gentlemen'
Balance is one of the Three Basic Essentials per TGM. Without balance anything and everything becomes a device for regaining balance. Including lag pressure, plane lines and what have have you. You are almost falling over the target line in the finish of your straight shot. It looks like your right toe "pressure point pressure" juuust saves you from dipping over. But you have probably done some major compenstation before that to not fall on your nose....
Getting the weight too much towards your toes is a massive stroke killer. You should get more weight into your right heel in the back swing and pivot with a lot of weight on your left heel in the down stroke and follow through. So that you have full balance to withstand the centrifugal force from the throwout of the club towards impact. With a margin.
Wow... 12 Piece bucket... that was a really awesome breakdown of the areas that I need improvement. I am going to working on them right way. I was hoping you would reply because you always have very good detail and thank you for making it a little less technical for the new guy (Some funny stuff)
A few questions for you:
Recommendation #1,2 I will get right to work looking up the wedges and putting it on video so see what the deal is.
Recommendation #3 - It sounds like I need to not raise my right elbow as high so that my shaft doesn't rise up the plane as much (Pic4). That way on the down stroke the shaft traces between my elbow and shoulder like in (Pic3) but other direction. This would be a flatter downswing plane more around my body. Did I state what I needed to work on correctly? Deeper would mean I need to rotate shoulders body more so that my hands / arms move more around my body?
Recommendation #4 - I am a little fuzzy on this one, but it sounds like in pics 5-7 I am rotating my body to quickly which is causing the club head to get behind and allowing my right forearm wedge to completely bend back. So I need to slow down the body rotation allow the club to work down the plane so the club stays more out in front of where my stomach is pointing. Mcdonald drill #11? Also should I feel like my right forearm is an extension of the club as it moves on the down swing (More control vs. wet noodle like I was taught elsewhere).
Recommendation #5 - Ok, I think you are basically saying on the backswing I am bending over and on the downswing I am standing up. I think the recommendation you are providing is to have more body tilt over thru the swing. I struggle with this one. I believe that one of the main causes for this is the difference in Setup vs. impact. At impact I have my right forearm in a straight line with the shaft, which I think is correct. When I swing I shoot my head back to ensure I have enough room for this extension. I am not sure how to get in that same alignment (forearm in-line with shaft) at address like Brian Gay does. I am 6’4” which is probably a little bit taller than him, but I can’t figure it out without having a more upright address (Maybe that is the answer?). I think this is one of the causes for why I pogo / change axis tilt. Thoughts?
Recommendation #6 - All the books were telling me to keep my head behind the ball. So it sounds like I have completely over done it. I will think about keeping it more in front of the ball at impact. Maybe that will move it enough.
Again thank you for your feedback. If this pays off in my swing I will find a way to pay you back. I am sure you have a paypal account
Just a little tip from me to spice up the analysis by the two accomplished gentlemen'
Balance is one of the Three Basic Essentials per TGM. Without balance anything and everything becomes a device for regaining balance. Including lag pressure, plane lines and what have have you. You are almost falling over the target line in the finish of your straight shot. It looks like your right toe "pressure point pressure" juuust saves you from dipping over. But you have probably done some major compenstation before that to not fall on your nose....
Getting the weight too much towards your toes is a massive stroke killer. You should get more weight into your right heel in the back swing and pivot with a lot of weight on your left heel in the down stroke and follow through. So that you have full balance to withstand the centrifugal force from the throwout of the club towards impact. With a margin.
Great observation
Dude you're on your toes at address. The goat hump is necessary as you pull your head and center of gravity ( from a dtl point of view) away from the ball ..... So you don't fall over a's the mass of your power package moves in front of your body.
Wow... 12 Piece bucket... that was a really awesome breakdown of the areas that I need improvement. I am going to working on them right way. I was hoping you would reply because you always have very good detail and thank you for making it a little less technical for the new guy (Some funny stuff)
A few questions for you:
Recommendation #1,2 I will get right to work looking up the wedges and putting it on video so see what the deal is.
Yep...check out the wedge stuff...if you can find the right forearm flying wedge primer around here...it's freakin golden...somebody please link this maybe?
Also just noticed something ...your left hand is pretty strong...so when you arch at the top you get a double dose of shut....grip changes can mess people up...so ain't gonna necessarily prescribe a grip change...but with your grip it would help you to have some cock and bend in your left wrist...look how Freddie Couples left wrist works...don't pay attention to the club shooting across the line...don't necessarily want to do that but look at how he gets the toe to hang more "down" by having some "cup" in his left wrist
note how the shaft lines up with his left arm and the face...if you get the face more open you'll be able to move more forward with your pivot and deliver the true loft of the club to the ball rather than having to work your body under the face to get it to go up
Recommendation #3 - It sounds like I need to not raise my right elbow as high so that my shaft doesn't rise up the plane as much (Pic4). That way on the down stroke the shaft traces between my elbow and shoulder like in (Pic3) but other direction. This would be a flatter downswing plane more around my body. Did I state what I needed to work on correctly? Deeper would mean I need to rotate shoulders body more so that my hands / arms move more around my body?
You lost me....but here's my thought...the closer your hands travel to that plane line the less shifting you gotta do to come down it...so basically...and this maybe radical for some...a backstroke something like this here....hands low and deep so your first move can be an "over and out " move with the right shoulder and club ...that's a powerful move but your club is deep and in the back stroke so the club is working out almost immediately but not over the top....with your current swing you work over early now but then you have to stop and back the shaft up to get to the inside of the ball....
If your hands are below your right shoulder and deep...you got all that shoulder support to turn directly to the ball ...work the club down out and forward immeadiately...you work that move now but the problem is your hands aren't in the right spot to make that move....with your hands up high you have to wait for them to drop down get on the shoulder line and then turn....you get 'em low and deep you can make that first powerful move you got and not be over the top because the depth of your backstroke hand path and your left arm is "under" the shoulder line so you can just blast that badboy down and work the clubhead out to the ball early from in... as opposed to have to lay it down and work from underneath late.
Recommendation #4 - I am a little fuzzy on this one, but it sounds like in pics 5-7 I am rotating my body to quickly which is causing the club head to get behind and allowing my right forearm wedge to completely bend back. So I need to slow down the body rotation allow the club to work down the plane so the club stays more out in front of where my stomach is pointing. Mcdonald drill #11? Also should I feel like my right forearm is an extension of the club as it moves on the down swing (More control vs. wet noodle like I was taught elsewhere).
Well with where your hands currently are at top you need your hands to not work out...they need to work down.... note how your early turn drags the over the plane...you're a good golfer so your instincts are good....I gotta get to the inside of the ball so I don't hit a wipe...but now that you have drug your hands over ...and steepened the shaft early....you gotta lay it down by raising up the handle ... the goathump does this...check out go to the top of your backswing stop and goathump...see how it lays the shaft down...what I'm saying is if you get your hands deeper...you can put that powerful move you got to work with the right handpath depth and the left arm under the shoulder line....you is a big strong man...fix your wedges...get the face more open so you got some loft ...then you can move FORWARD...if you was gonna push a car would you move your head back away from it?....you gotta get your body in position and arms and hands in a postion so you can use the powerful move going forward rather than backward.
Recommendation #5 - Ok, I think you are basically saying on the backswing I am bending over and on the downswing I am standing up. I think the recommendation you are providing is to have more body tilt over thru the swing. I struggle with this one. I believe that one of the main causes for this is the difference in Setup vs. impact. At impact I have my right forearm in a straight line with the shaft, which I think is correct. When I swing I shoot my head back to ensure I have enough room for this extension. I am not sure how to get in that same alignment (forearm in-line with shaft) at address like Brian Gay does. I am 6’4” which is probably a little bit taller than him, but I can’t figure it out without having a more upright address (Maybe that is the answer?). I think this is one of the causes for why I pogo / change axis tilt. Thoughts?
that standing up gets the clubhead to fall down and behind since you have drug your hands over the plane and steepened early...I'd say fix the wedges and the handpath and see what that does....your pelvis needs to be tilted down as you move forward and turn...the stand up move is great...it just has to be sequenced right and be more "down the stance line" rather than vertical to the target line...hump the goat more down your stance line....Hogan humps a goat to his left and forward...not one right in front of him...
Recommendation #6 - All the books were telling me to keep my head behind the ball. So it sounds like I have completely over done it. I will think about keeping it more in front of the ball at impact. Maybe that will move it enough.
The whole head thing is about gettin' the center(s) of your pivot/shoulder turn in a position to hit down and out on the ball on plane....just like if you was gonna push a refrigerator...you'd get your head up close to that thing...I'm not saying head in front...per se...just make a backswing and stop at the top feeling like you can see under the front of the ball...from their hump a goat to your left and forward...do it in the mirror see how it looks...look at Hogan...
Again thank you for your feedback. If this pays off in my swing I will find a way to pay you back. I am sure you have a paypal account
I don't have no paypal account fool .....I'm in the witness protection program...I do this crap for fun...you can give me some of that chicken you was eatin' sometime....if it don't work call Butch Harmon or Hank..he ain't got no job....
JC
Answers above.....
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-27-2011 at 01:35 AM.
Dude you're on your toes at address. The goat hump is necessary as you pull your head and center of gravity ( from a dtl point of view) away from the ball ..... So you don't fall over a's the mass of your power package moves in front of your body.
Could be on his toes....but that goathump is to get to the inside of the ball too...he's a 5 he says...so he certainly can hit it....6'4" big strong man...I'm sure Mike O will be googling him....
My observation on the address would be...
a. Stance way too wide
b. Ball back to far especially with a shut face shifted plane and an underneath release...all aboard the train to push and hook city...
c. YOUR ELBOWS LIKE HYPER EXTENDED....RELAX BROTHA...remember the left arm is a piece of rope...if you soften up that left elbow and kinda get some space between your arms it will be easier to get the clubhead to throw out as the handle works in...you ain't encountering the pulley....of course I have been accused of not knowing where the pulley is...but I know you can't get the club to over take raising up the handle and having the buttcap looking down the line that long...RELAX YOUR LEFT ELBOW...get some bendin your right elbow....that will help gettin that clubhead to sling out.
Problem is he is dynamically moving low point back by moving the center of his shoulder turn back and shifting the plane out to the right.....Hips and center of shoulder turn backing up...note how he makes the pine tree in set up disappear behind his head...looks like a fight to get underneath a shut face....this cat has some talent...time to get the vectors to line up via handpath, wedge alignment and pivot fix...working underneath with a shut face leads to some volatility....cat looks like a big strong mannnnnnn....could be dangerous if he got his junk to stay centered and sling out rather than sling under ....
Yup. Hey Bucket did you get hit by the storm yesterday?
Could be a Compensational hang back too......a CHB.
There's a lot of guys who ( with a driver) set up with the ball back of low point and then lean back during the shot. Its actually an advanced golfer move. Some really, really good golfers do this , guys on tour. Heck there's people who teach this for a driver. I always wonder if its a Compensation for a bad ball placement, if they are getting the ball under their Left Shoulder or at Low Point dynamically (even if its subconsciously). Compensations are weird things. They speak to the geometry whether the golfers knows about the geometry or not. Know about or not we are subject to it.
Golfgnome diagnosed me doing this deal once at the Atlanta Country Club. Total eye opener to a hook producer. D was there too and concurred as I remember. Probably the last thing those two guys agreed on that day.......great great day.
jlcowper correcting the ball placement might just automatically get rid of the hang back move, maybe. There's different motivations for different maladies.......could be a Compensation or could be just a hang back for physical or psychological reasons. Those guys with a physically motivated hang back do start to move the ball back .......as they must.
Same with goat humps... you got your different motivations. Buckets a genius with that stuff though man, he wrote the freaking words to "My Hump" for Furgie for instance. Got Mike O. to hump his butt end back SoCal..... sumthin about a deal on a #5 flashlight hole bleaching near Beverly, Hills that is.
Mikie where are you? You got Daryl with you? And Jeff too?
Bucket , Ive never seen that last photo of Hogan you put up. Nice.
Those golf balls right beside his right foot? Touching his right foot. Thats a drill of some kind Im thinking. Maybe to do with not putting out cigarettes like you say? Like the balls would move if he didnt roll his right shoe over on its sole from toe to heal before he pushed off on it? I dunno.
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