Standard Hip Action vs. Delayed Hip Action

[danattherock]

Dan...you're from Alaska or somewhere that 30 degrees ain't cold right? ....this should look familiar....

Nah, I am a NC boy. My wife and I worked in Alaska for 2 years and we get up there a few times a year fishing and floating rivers.

the right shoulder has to move out to the ball so you got something to push against...

That makes a lot of sense. Still trying to figure out how to make it happen. Meaning, the actual move, trigger, etc... that facilitates the move. I will get it, just a matter of when. Thanks for the ongoing advice and encouragement. Going to hit range balls tomorrow. So excited I can't sleep.



-Dan

[12 piece bucket]

Nah, I am a NC boy. My wife and I worked in Alaska for 2 years and we get up there a few times a year fishing and floating rivers.





That makes a lot of sense. Still trying to figure out how to make it happen. Meaning, the actual move, trigger, etc... that facilitates the move. I will get it, just a matter of when. Thanks for the ongoing advice and encouragement. Going to hit range balls tomorrow. So excited I can't sleep.



-Dan

Dan....even though it's the right shoulder that controls the geometry...you are in control of the procedures and the feels....so try this one on...

LEFT SHOULDER LOW AND AROUND .......THAT ONE GET'S ME OUTTA THE RIGHT SHOULDER DROP UNDERNEATH SWINGING RELEASE FUNK....

[O.B.Left]

Hey Bucket .

Im not familiar with your pattern but with my eye I see Arnie as a guy who:

-pivots hard. Hips are moving , turning hard and early.
-gets inside early with a shut face. What they used to call a "closed to open" player back in the day.
-Rotated Shoulders but with his Hands (the inclined plane) under his Right Shoulder, not a Turned Shoulder Plane then.
-Swingers Drag Loading , but with arched left hand. Which has implications to where the lag loads.....not a classic Rotated Presssure Point loading like Hogan at the knuckle. More like a guy who loves to load the Index Finger and loads it hard and early which can get you inside and closed during the backswing and arched at Top. But he's gonna use that lag loading along the Aft in Release with some all time , worlds best Thrusting.
-Downstroke, he's not "holding the umbrella" he's loading #2 angle although he's gonna fire #1 too principally . (1 and 2)
-Delayed Release ...really late which normally has implications complications to the Thruster if his left hand is turned to Plane and his #2 angle is loaded which would be at cross purposes. You'd be loaded for Sequenced and then trying to Overlap Release with your Right Elbow not being in the right place for the thrusting. Arnie though, as seen above in frame 6 and 7 even though he's very late , is arched and has his elbow and his #1pp (maybe even his 3 pp) aligned towards the ball. He's aligned to Thrust . The arch as a compensation for his Drag Loading maybe ? He's got the quarter turn undone in other words and his pressure points between his right elbow and the ball. Gonna make a side armed throw not so much an inline push type thrust but hard.

I can see how one could look at his pivot and late release and think he's using his pivot like a swinger .... uh, he is, for the most part. He's not a Drive Loader , 12-1 to my mind he's 4B Hitting. Pivot power , Drag Loading and then Thrusting with compensations to over ride the usual loading along the top of the shaft via the swingers start down.

Which at the expense of further cross pollination between your two threads around here may have some similarity to what Tiger's up to these days... although without the arch compensation. I dunno.

Thats what these eyes see but like I say I don't know your pattern . So please set me straight and BTW whats the purpose or advantage of the Right Shoulder being above the Hands? You wouldn't need to shift down I guess. Im here to learn.

All the best for 2012 everybody.

OB

[12 piece bucket]

Hey Bucket .

Im not familiar with your pattern but with my eye I see Arnie as a guy who:

-pivots hard. Hips are moving , turning hard and early.
-gets inside early with a shut face. What they used to call a "closed to open" player back in the day.
-Rotated Shoulders but with his Hands (the inclined plane) under his Right Shoulder, not a Turned Shoulder Plane then.
-Swingers Drag Loading , but with arched left hand. Which has implications to where the lag loads.....not a classic Rotated Presssure Point loading like Hogan at the knuckle. More like a guy who loves to load the Index Finger and loads it hard and early which can get you inside and closed during the backswing and arched at Top. But he's gonna use that lag loading along the Aft in Release with some all time , worlds best Thrusting.
-Downstroke, he's not "holding the umbrella" he's loading #2 angle although he's gonna fire #1 too principally . (1 and 2)
-Delayed Release ...really late which normally has implications complications to the Thruster if his left hand is turned to Plane and his #2 angle is loaded which would be at cross purposes. You'd be loaded for Sequenced and then trying to Overlap Release with your Right Elbow not being in the right place for the thrusting. Arnie though, as seen above in frame 6 and 7 even though he's very late , is arched and has his elbow and his #1pp (maybe even his 3 pp) aligned towards the ball. He's aligned to Thrust . The arch as a compensation for his Drag Loading maybe ? He's got the quarter turn undone in other words and his pressure points between his right elbow and the ball. Gonna make a side armed throw not so much an inline push type thrust but hard.

I can see how one could look at his pivot and late release and think he's using his pivot like a swinger .... uh, he is, for the most part. He's not a Drive Loader , 12-1 to my mind he's 4B Hitting. Pivot power , Drag Loading and then Thrusting with compensations to over ride the usual loading along the top of the shaft via the swingers start down.

Which at the expense of further cross pollination between your two threads around here may have some similarity to what Tiger's up to these days... although without the arch compensation. I dunno.

Thats what these eyes see but like I say I don't know your pattern . So please set me straight and BTW whats the purpose or advantage of the Right Shoulder being above the Hands? You wouldn't need to shift down I guess. Im here to learn.

All the best for 2012 everybody.

OB

You're correct 100% pattern is Angle of Approach Hitting Pattern....10-5-E .... steep plane dictating steep shoulders...right shoulder high and steep b/c of derived plane...no Swinging here... Eldrick is trying to get steep shoulders and swing...could be me mismatched components...pitch elbow don't work with this particular pattern...

to your question on hands/arms and right shoulder alignment at top....taking the hands above the right shoulder lends itself to swinging...arms have to fall in line with the shoulder so they can drive....if the shoulder is the backstop...why would you EVER want raise your hands above the launching pad? If you are loading the primary lever... why would you EVER want to raise the upper leg of the primary lever above the dual agent right shoulder?....if the right shoulder and chest is driving the arm down...why raise it up above the shoulder? If the hands are up there...the pivot has to wait...something has to move...if the axis tilts early you just turned the launching pad into a fly wheel....

[gmbtempe]

Bucket, my feeble attempt at your pattern. I cant really get my shoulders anywheres close to steep, for me this is steep.

The more I trusted driving the right shoulder down the plane the better I hit it. There definitely is no attempt to use a swinging action here. I did hit it rather well.

http://youtu.be/5-pmnwzvG5M

http://youtu.be/Sj0siZw1Als

[danattherock]

Well, today was hosel rocket day. So dang frustrating, can't recall ever hitting the ball so bad, so consistently. Not sure what I was doing wrong. After my session, it did occur to me one BIG thing Eddie had worked with me on the other day. Keeping the right elbow close to my body. Somehow, my genius self, I realized this after hitting 100 balls sitting in the car looking at the crap video of my hour on the range. Oh well, baby steps (and set backs) are the way it goes I suspect. Today was a bad day. Wanted to play tomorrow, but can't take this swing to the course. Another day at the range for me. Below is a video of one of my half way decent hits. Literally, hit about 5 good shots out of the 100 balls. The one positive (I think) thing, I was making some divots today. Never take a divot, but hoping to one day. A byproduct of a bad swing? Not sure, but it was interesting to beat up some turf. Just wish the balls had not been 10 feet off the ground and heading right. It was a bit embarrassing.


Anything obviously different here compared to before? Shank city.


Last week...

[video]

[danattherock]

Today...



[video]

[gmbtempe]

Do you have a face on from today?

It sure seems like the elbow is to far behind you. At this point in the swing the right elbow should be working down to your right hip and more in front.

[danattherock]

No front on video from today. The right elbow could very well be the issue. It was one of the focus points in the last lesson. Somehow, I forgot this today while hitting balls. Got about 5 other things I am changing. Lots of swing thoughts. Checking my grip before every swing due to finding out it has been closed until now. So much going on. But that is OK. I am willing to pay my dues. This game ain't easy. Wouldn't have it any other way.




-Dan



Happy New Years

[12 piece bucket]

Dan the top of the backswing looked nice....I kind of drew some lines for you....your shoulders are staying too closed...you can see from the red line...note Palmer's shoulders are relatively square at this point...yours are pretty closed...this is keeping the clubhead/face from working OUT to the ball...note the direction the buttcap is looking...you need to get the shoulders turning and the buttcap starting to look back at you...note in the second pics how far back from the ball your clubhead is...it's not working down and out to the ball ...it's working underneath to the ball...that's where the shank is coming from...

So you need to feel like your left shoulder stays LOW and WORKS AROUND LOW BEHIND YOU...LEFT SHOULDER LOW AND AROUND...that will help get the clubhead to work out to the ball...also feel like buttcap is going to start looking back at you much earlier...remember this junk is happening FAST...so you may have to FEEL LIKE it is beginning to look back at you almost from the top as you start your downswing...



Note the arrows...left shoulder low and around right shoulder high and out....

a couple of things to experiment with...get a headcover or shoebox or something that you can't bust up to bad with a club or hurt yourself with...set it between your right foot and the ball...experiment with the placement but you are trying to put that thing in a place where if you come from "in and underneath" you'll crash the box...

also maybe try putting the ball waaaaay up in your stance I mean like outside your left toe and hit irons trying to hit pull cuts kind of...the way you are swinging from underneath you will have a tough time getting to that forward ball...film it and see if it changes the pictures....