Horizontal hinging versus swivel

[golfbulldog]

I have never quite understood Nick Bradley's description of his "puck release" concept in his book, and he likens it to the motion that a hockey player would make when flicking a puck on the ice. What worries me about his mental analogy/photo-illustration is that the right wrist seems to straighten immediately post-impact while the left wrist seems to bend. It is my impression (when reading TGM) that HK wants the right wrist to remain bent in the immediate post-impact period, thereby maintaining a FLW, while the right elbow is straightening. I sense that Anthony Kim is fully straightening his right elbow post-impact while keeping a slightly bent right wrist/FLW.

Anybody - Am I wrong, and missing a major factor?

Jeff.

correct. So the right forearm is driven through impact with a bent right wrist but a straightening right elbow. Hit or swing the right forearm drives or is driven...

[david sandridge]

The puck release photos look like throw away. right wrist flatten to early. I think it is helpful to differntiate between pronation and supination of forearm(radius & ulna) and pronation and supination of entire arm. Laying club off is a forearm rotation problem. The answers to your questions are important to the understanding of the proper motion. Hopefully Yoda will give us a final understanding. I understand hinging as an entire arm concept and swivel as a forearm concept. Swivel appears to be tied into forearm bending and straigtening and uncocking left wrist. Swivel puts the hands into a vertical position for impact. I guess vertical to all planes and hinging then refers to motion after impact vertical to the selected plane. Help !

[Jeff]

Hennybogan

You state that the left arm/forearm flying wedge should remain intact through this horizontal hinging motion. I agree. However, isn't the entire left arm flying wedge supinating slightly during horizontal hinging - if the back of the left hand is perpendicular to the ground, and not the inclined plane? If the left arm/forearm flying wedge is supinating slightly, then the right hand must be pronating slightly at the same time. It is my impression that the degree of right wrist bend decreases during the followthrough - because it is pronating. I suspect that this phenomenon is happening in this sequence of Tiger Woods swing. He states that he "feels" that the knuckles of his left hand start to face groundwards after impact - which is the process of supination.



Note in image 3 that Tiger's right wrist is less bent. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the left wrist is bending. It could be that the decrease in bend of the right wrist is due to pronation and the left wrist is supinating while remaining a FLW.

Jeff.

[Yoda]

It is my impression (when reading TGM) that HK wants the right wrist to remain bent in the immediate post-impact period, thereby maintaining a FLW, while the right elbow is straightening. I sense that Anthony Kim is fully straightening his right elbow post-impact while keeping a slightly bent right wrist/FLW.

Anybody - Am I wrong, and missing a major factor?

You are twice right, Jeff. Good eye!

[neil]

Horizontal hinging occurs pre and post impact. The finish swivel is "the gateway"from the both arms straight position of follow through, to the re- cocking of the left wrist to the finish.

[Jeff]

Neil

I cannot understand what you mean when you state that horizontal hinging occurs pre-impact. Where in TGM does HK state that it occurs pre-impact?

I understand that the finish swivel starts when the followthrough is complete - when both arms are fully straight.

Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.



Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?

Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.

Jeff.

[Yoda]

Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.



Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?

Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.

There is no true rotation of the Left Wrist during the Horizontal Hinge Action. Though it appears to Roll, it is merely maintaining its 'vertical to the ground' alignment.

There is a true rotation -- supination -- of the Left Wrist into Impact (Release Swivel) and out of the Follow-Through (Finish Swivel). But . . .

This is Swivel Action, not Hinge Action.

[Hennybogan]

Neil

I cannot understand what you mean when you state that horizontal hinging occurs pre-impact. Where in TGM does HK state that it occurs pre-impact?

I understand that the finish swivel starts when the followthrough is complete - when both arms are fully straight.

Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.



Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?

Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.

Jeff.

Jeff,

Notice how far back Tiger's head is. It has a direct influence on the rate of closure of the clubface. Tiger appears to maintain his left arm flying wedge, but the rate it rotates post impact is related to his head position. He used to (might still) get callouses (sp?) on his wrists from rubbing them together in his finish.

[12 piece bucket]

Jeff,

Notice how far back Tiger's head is. It has a direct influence on the rate of closure of the clubface. Tiger appears to maintain his left arm flying wedge, but the rate it rotates post impact is related to his head position. He used to (might still) get callouses (sp?) on his wrists from rubbing them together in his finish.

Don't you have callouses on your wrists too . . . . not the same reason though right?

[nuke99]

Hi Lynn,

Uhm I also notice Anthony kim using strong double action ... while Nick use nuetral single action..

Anthony Kim is doing something compatible while Nick is not really compatible.. because NICK is flipping while anthony kim is not flipping ( bend and arch of the left wrist) and using a Geometric equivalent of the bent left wrist.

close enough?