Does CF left unbridled naturally produce an Over Roll?

[Daryl]

Daryl, just curious. Why did you run from Erickson's site deleing all your posts while closing the door?

Erickson is in fact very knowledgeable. His knowledge does not limit itself within a book - he has lived the book on tour and found pure swinging wanting in his case. He has studied great ball strikers and found an alternative hitting pattern that probably does not fit your TGM version. That does not mean he is not knowledgeable - on the contrary, he has something extra to offer.

Hitting is a TGM Term. It means that Right Arm Thrust, not CF, Uncocks the Left Wrist. There are no other versions to my knowledge, however there are thousands of Stroke Pattern Variations.

So, is "Accumulator Dumping" a TGM Term or is he making it up as he goes along?

No one ran. You're making more of it that it was. I told John that if all he wanted to do was brow beat TGM and it's adherents then I wouldn't be a part of the discussion. I had to ask if he's purposely misrepresenting TGM for another motive or is he un-knowledgeable about TGM?

I'm not the one opening a can of worms here. I'm not interested in discussing Johns views nor do I care. Styles wants to ask everyone's opinions on Johns theory, not me. Then he gets bent out of shape if the response is negative? Have you read anything by Styles supporting Johns views? I asked him to post in the "Lab" but he refuses. That's where "new frontiers" type questions belong. No?

[GPStyles]

not drunk Daryl though thank you for suggesting to everyone I am, wish I culd come up with something as witty :sarcasm:

I come to this site with questions, not answers, I have never portrayed myself as knowing all the answers.

There are many people on this site I respect, you sir, are not one of them.

[Daryl]

Styles, I'll still treat you with respect. No one has all of the answers. But I hope that after some amount of time that you have some of the answers.

[Burner]

So, is "Accumulator Dumping" a TGM Term or is he making it up as he goes along?

"What you load is what you dump". Ben Doyle - GSED, the 1st, no less.

Accumulating is loading and the subsequent releasing of the accumulated forces is dumping. Not exact TGM terminology but a very effective description of what actually takes place, nevertheless.

I suspect that you knew that already, of course, but it just did not suit your purpose to say so.

I have tried very hard to stay out of this thread but your attitude to those who do not feast at your table is something you might like to address.

You have much to offer, and we are all grateful for that, but the energy expended in alienating those you perceive to be in opposition would be far better spent on their conversion.

[drewitgolf]

Both GPStyles and Daryl are both valuable contributors to this forum and I enjoy reading their posts. When you are both searching for the same goal, there is no reason to be at odds with each other.

Somtimes we use (instructors) different terminology. For example, I once gave a golf clinic to a group of bankers and borrowed some terminology from A.I. Billy McKinney to explain Power Accumulators: Earn It (Accumulation,, Loading), Save It (Storage, Delivery), and then Spend It (Release). It is all about your presentation...something both of you can "bank" on.

[Daryl]

"What you load is what you dump". Ben Doyle - GSED, the 1st, no less.

Accumulating is loading and the subsequent releasing of the accumulated forces is dumping. Not exact TGM terminology but a very effective description of what actually takes place, nevertheless.

I suspect that you knew that already, of course, but it just did not suit your purpose to say so.

I have tried very hard to stay out of this thread but your attitude to those who do not feast at your table is something you might like to address.

You have much to offer, and we are all grateful for that, but the energy expended in alienating those you perceive to be in opposition would be far better spent on their conversion.

Did Homer Kelley use that Term? Actually, no, I didn't know that Ben Doyle said that. I have his tapes, DVD's, I've had 2 lessons with Ben Doyle and I've talked to him on the Phone many times and he has never said to me that Release is "Dumping" and I wouldn't describe my Release as "Dumping". But I haven't a clue what that means even if Ben Doyle coined the term unless I asked him to explain it. I would describe my Release as a "Sequentially Flowing Throw". But I haven't adopted my description of "feel" as a TGM Term. Does that make sense to you? As difficult as it is, I try not to assume I understand a concept without extensive collaboration, sometimes over years. Even then, applying it, is a completely different learning experience. I didn't go to TGM school.

What do you mean "Feast at your Table"? Are you saying that in addition to thousands of available stroke patterns, that TGM concepts themselves are open for a variety of equally valid interpretations?

Burner, it's odd that Ben Doyle said that. During my first lesson, Ben broke a tee in half and pushed it into the ground on a rearward leaning angle so that only a very tiny tip of the tee remained above ground. He told me to to use a chipping stroke and drive the tee into the ground without touching a single blade of grass. I said: "impossible". He took the club out of my hand, then, using a Pitching length Swing he not only drove the tee underground but did so without touching a single blade of grass as he continued with an almost full finish. Whoa. He gave the club back to me, and with a chipping stroke I hit every blade of grass around the tee without ever touching the tee. He told me I should learn to do that with a full swing.

Is the skill level and precision Impact needed for that test, best described by "Dumping"?

[O.B.Left]

Lets proceed with dignity and mutual respect, everyone deserves that after all (except Bucket and Mike O who came over last weekend and put lipstick and fishnets on my dog Buster, who's walking real weird too these days, but I digress).

Lynn took that photo of Homer whirling that balsa wood clubhead around from the second AI class I think. I believe it had a screw in its sweetspot, COG. Lynn would know what the deal was with that demonstration. Below is Alex Sloan's take on it from the first AI class.

So does unbridled CF produce an over roll? Slice's answer was great, thanks for that. We missed a chance to talk about it too cause you guys where doing other things sadly but ........What do you think?



http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=126102699 2

[12 piece bucket]

I would like to chime in a bit here . . . CF according Mr. Kelley does produce Horizontal Hinging . . . however according to Mr. Kelley the amount of force required to override the cf acting clubFACE is minimal . . . hence the "manipulated hands swinger." The amount of force required to override cf on the clubhead/shaft . . . different story.

So from a practical stand point if you chose to swing then how can you keep your hinging from turning into an unbridled swivel as upposed to an unpredictable flash of the face? ANSWER . . . keep the massive rotor GOING . . . and keep its mass CENTERED and far enough down the plane line so you don't run out of right arm. So if you "hangback" with the right shoulder via a perverted axis tilt, not enough weight left, or your right shoulder ain't moving down out and forward the proper amounts . . . the dawg runing on the chain gets choked out . . . DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR LEFT SHOULDER IS?

Big differences . . .

[O.B.Left]

Awesome post Bucket.

"Keep the Rotor going". Nice, we've all felt the consequences of not doing that. I think this maybe ties in with what Slice said too. Is this a maintenance of CF then? If Homer had of slowed the RPM's of twirling string would the face have rolled over?

Do you mind taking us through the photos, what do you see there? Is Adam Scotts COG or Axis of Rotation (in a VJ Trolio sense) not far enough left to your mind? In the comparison of Hogan and Tiger , is it Hogans hips being turned more that you are looking at? The right foot drag move of his that Knudson adopted plays a big part in that I believe although its relates to ones flexibility and is therefor a custom fit kind of deal. Hogans drag was smallish , Knusdon's especially as he got older was longer as he preached getting to Finish in a super comfortable way with your "center" (cog, I guess) pointing right at the target, exactly. But I digress.

[okie]

RC,

Whatta ya saying now? Is Adam Scott's pivot stalling?