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-   -   Motionless right shoulder (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6676)

okie 06-20-2009 10:58 AM

Take it easy!
 
I second that! Knowing the difference between pitch...punch and push has been a great help to me, especially as it relates to "fanning." It may be a very simple motion but most people do not do it! Why? They are too busy heaving a baby grand with a shoulder turn takeaway. For INSTANT simplification try the right forearm takeaway! My pops was acquainted with the great South African, Bobby Locke. He asked Mr. Locke what he thought to be the key to success in tournament play, Locke answered "Economy of motion...conserving energy." at least something to that effect. I never got that really until my stroke pattern started to shed uneccessary movement!

O.B.Left 06-20-2009 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 64881)
Push basic with the right forearm parallel to the plane line is great for swift downhill putts because of the automatic vertical hinge it produces. !

Great stuff Okie.

With this procedure do you trace a straight plane line (arc putting, the putter head visually covering the arc of approach, the shaft running along a string line, the putter head riding an inclined plane or putting arc) OR do you use a straight back, straight through (cover the plane line, intentional steering, acceptable when putting although a disruption of the clubs circular orbit, linear force as opposed to the angular we employ on longer shots, pool cue as opposed to baseball bat, the putter running along a straight rail or plane board which is at right angles to ground)? This is my longest sentence to date, over to the hole-ies and pole-ies section.

Although the information you are sharing is almost 50 years old it is nowhere near being common knowledge. There are famous putting instructors out there with popular books or "bibles" even that dont grasp the geometry you refer to, real though it is. Each hinge action having an associated effect on the ball.

I keep re learning the importance of putting with a selected hinge action. To ignore it is to court a mis hit, like a miscue in pool. A disruption of the balls line of compression. The selected motion or arc must stay constant.

Still working my way through 2-C. Let me know where Im wrong.

O.B.Left 06-20-2009 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 65297)
Glad you're experiencing your recent successes, laangels. Stay with us . . . there's more to come!

There are three Major Basic Strokes: Punch, Pitch and Push. Punch and Pitch demand Right Forearm/Elbow Fanning -- the Hands move around the Right Elbow -- and that Action begins immediately.

Only with Push is there no fanning. Instead, the Right Elbow is positioned in an 'up and out' location at Address, and the Hands are held between the Right Elbow and the Ball throughout the Stroke.

P-U-S-H.

A ponderous Action that produces very little distance in relation to the applied Thrust.

:salut:


Great post.

Fanning begins immediately with Punch Elbow. This was a big revelation for me in my recent lesson with Yoda, as I had been employing a misguided Pushish Punch hybrid sort of elbow in Total Motion, too much Inline motion in Startup. Not a big Mr X move or anything. But I had a misconception about the Hitters Punch Elbow location in Total Motion having used Push Elbow in Basic Motion. Now I know better.

Yoda, do you care to comment on whether this early fanning can be pivot induced in Startup?

okie 06-22-2009 10:38 AM

Oil Leak Techniques
 
[quote=O.B.Left;65390]Great stuff Okie.
OR do you use a straight back, straight through (cover the plane line, intentional steering, acceptable when putting although a disruption of the clubs circular orbit,

I steer! It feels ungainly, but it produces a very soft impact. It is not my preferred pattern, but I tend to do it under pressure anyway! I find it to be a similar situation as grip pressure. Under pressure the tendency is to hold on for dear life. So why not grip it tight to begin with, as long as your wrists can do what they are supposed to do. I think Yoda relayed a Larry Nelson ancecdote that went along those lines.

okie 06-22-2009 10:51 AM

Rfata
 
This is driving me nuts at the moment. I understand in better detail how the right forearm is supposed to operate. I can describe it...I know at least 4 drills that help develop it...I can do it...SELDOM! I am so used to wheeling it with my shoulders, taking it back low and slow with my left arm etc. Years and years of executed ignorance. I am going to keep plugging away with it. I have what I have termed an "arm sway" meaning my head is pretty well stationary ( and better on the centered end) but my right arm actually straightens in startup...it is almost imperceptible (in fact the only evidence is my feel...constrasted with a well executed start-up) I am having a good time working it out...I know I am working on the right things

KevCarter 06-22-2009 02:42 PM

Okie,

I'm a bonehead rookie, not nearly as advanced in the machine as you...

I fight the exact same demons. What helps me is watching the Brian Gay video, over, and over, and over again. Not only his action, but Brian's and Mr. Yoda's words. They are real, they sink in, it's a LOOOONG process.

Quote:

For me, it all revolves around the right forearm.
I keep putting together magic right forearm documents, mostly from Yoda and the others here. It becomes a tangible thing and it works. Hard work exorcizing those demons, but worth every minute you spend!

Kevin

dkerby 06-22-2009 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 65387)
I second that! Knowing the difference between pitch...punch and push has been a great help to me, especially as it relates to "fanning." It may be a very simple motion but most people do not do it! Why? They are too busy heaving a baby grand with a shoulder turn takeaway. For INSTANT simplification try the right forearm takeaway! My pops was acquainted with the great South African, Bobby Locke. He asked Mr. Locke what he thought to be the key to success in tournament play, Locke answered "Economy of motion...conserving energy." at least something to that effect. I never got that really until my stroke pattern started to shed uneccessary movement!

Okie, very interesting about your dad and Bobby Locke.
Mr. Locked said his SECRET #7 was: Taking the putter
back far enough to build up the necessary potential energy
to be accumulated in the putter head for the particular putt
at hand...

okie 06-25-2009 09:37 AM

An Afternoon with Mr. Locke
 
Mr. locke was a grand gentleman, that called everybody "Master!" I started playing golf in 1986. I was slated to play a round with Mr. Locke in the Fall of 1987 (Southern Hem.), unfortunately he passed away quite suddenly that summer (Feb. I think it was) I did get one of his flat white caps and three Slazenger golf balls (which I promptly sacrificed to the golfing gods!) Most prized however was a 5 minute personal exchange and a 2 minute putting lesson. My Dad told me at the time to "...brrrand everrrry worrrrd he says into yourrr mind, laddie (pops is a displaced Glaswegian). Unfortunately my memory of that lesson is corrupted by my serial reading of Bobby's book! I do remember the licking sound that he made when striking putts. His putter (a copy of his original) was very heavy (but then Okie was a mere squirt) He told me to address it on the toe so not to cut across it, and to a golfer hitting putts nearby he admonished me not to play "squash" balls. I had not idea what he was talking about. Today I think he was referencing his preference for a harder...noisier ball. My father recalls the exchange verbatim (endowed with a freakish memory for minutia) At the time everyone's golfing hero was Norman, Couples etc. mine was Arthur D'Arcy Locke! I watched him play about 27 holes (back nine X 3) He walked as though in slow motion. His book is still one of my favorites. I regret never asking him to sign it. I need to scan some of the pics. There are some good examples of #3 PP, sequenced release, as well as flying wedges. He had a pretty narrow endless belt going as well! Oh, yes the short conversation dealt with the most important club in the bag was the 15th club, the one that wears the hat!

Do you think Locke's insistence that the putt be addressed towards the toe for putts is an innate understanding of 2-J-1?

O.B.Left 06-25-2009 01:21 PM

Thanks for sharing that Okie. A friend of mine played with Locke at the Wanderers club in South Africa. Many stories.

O.B.Left 06-25-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 65447)
This is driving me nuts at the moment. I understand in better detail how the right forearm is supposed to operate. I can describe it...I know at least 4 drills that help develop it...I can do it...SELDOM! I am so used to wheeling it with my shoulders, taking it back low and slow with my left arm etc. Years and years of executed ignorance. I am going to keep plugging away with it. I have what I have termed an "arm sway" meaning my head is pretty well stationary ( and better on the centered end) but my right arm actually straightens in startup...it is almost imperceptible (in fact the only evidence is my feel...constrasted with a well executed start-up) I am having a good time working it out...I know I am working on the right things

Here is how I deal with a similar habit of straightening the right elbow in start up:
-my old swing saw a pronounced shoulder turn takeaway which enabled an extension of both arms going back. A disruption of the clubhead orbit resulting.
-with the left shoulder held still as a drill only, the right side must shorten as the power package moves away from the ball.
- you dont want to freeze up your shoulder turn but you must fight the tendency to over turn the left shoulder actively.
-The right shoulder governs the left shoulders motion.
-My feel is a turn of the right shoulder away that allows it and right arm bending to pull the left arm which pulls the left shoulder around. Weird but thats the notion.
-The right arm will then shorten immediately in startup.


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