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-   -   The Bent Right Wrist (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5366)

golfgnome 02-04-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 48727)
Mr. Golfnome,

Do I understand that your right wrist remains bent from start to finish, or are you referencing the resetting of the wedges at finish?

Like I said, I start closer to fix than most, but not all the way. Once my right wrist sets I do try to maintain to finish. I think it is quite simple to do, just go to fix, then to both arms straight, maintain extensor action and pivot and watch the left arm fold as the right wrist remains bent.

Extensor action and body rotation create the finish swivel and allow PP#1,2, and 3 to remainglued to the shaft.

okie 02-04-2008 07:45 PM

Liquid Magma
 
That is what I thought you said. There seems to be some debate about keeping the right wrist bent from follow through to finish. Some people maintain that there is too much force; the right wrist will flatten (like many pga tour players do) That is my favorite alignment...I want to keep it all the way for alignment continuity sake.

Jeff,

Thanks for putting your motion out there for all to see. Proof that you can be smooth like "liquid magma" and still devastate low point! Watched them vids many...many times!:happy3:

okie 02-06-2008 12:53 AM

Nicely Put
 
Extensor action and body rotation create the finish swivel and allow PP#1,2, and 3 to remain glued to the shaft.

I scribbled this sentence in the margins of my 7th Addiction! If ever it becomes an artifact of some sort, they will wonder who Golfgnome was! :laughing9

okie 02-06-2008 12:56 AM

Filled with resolve and other dangerous things
 
New goal:

The right wrist WILL NOT flatten! I am sure it does a few degrees, but that is perhaps why HK did not talk in degreed terms! As far as the ball is concerned it was bent and level...see ya!

elliskit 02-06-2008 02:51 PM

Be Careful!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 48934)
New goal:

The right wrist WILL NOT flatten! I am sure it does a few degrees, but that is perhaps why HK did not talk in degreed terms! As far as the ball is concerned it was bent and level...see ya!

If you ignore some other factors and concentrate solely on maintaining a bent right wrist (or flat left wrist, for that matter), you probably will tend toward STEERING.

Remember, LAG is the secret of GOLF. You want lag to be sustained so that it does not allow the right wrist to flatten or the left wrist to bend. LAG has no release point. Concentrate on lag pressure through the pivot train, from the feet up, and find a way to make your hinge action of an angular motion operating on an inclined plane so that rhythm, balance and stationary head are not disrupted. Keep your wrists completely relaxed and make a TOTAL MOTION that maintains lag and does not unload too soon. If your wrists become tight to try to maintain the BRW or FLW, you are steering.

I know because I have done it (STEERING) for many years. I read where Homer said that if you could learn to play with a FLW, you would break 80 tomorrow, so I started holding my wrist rigid through impact and it killed my swing. What Homer did not say, but is understood, is that you must learn to play with a FLW while sustaining LAG.

12 piece bucket 02-06-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliskit (Post 48973)
If you ignore some other factors and concentrate solely on maintaining a bent right wrist (or flat left wrist, for that matter), you probably will tend toward STEERING.

Remember, LAG is the secret of GOLF. You want lag to be sustained so that it does not allow the right wrist to flatten or the left wrist to bend. LAG has no release point. Concentrate on lag pressure through the pivot train, from the feet up, and find a way to make your hinge action of an angular motion operating on an inclined plane so that rhythm, balance and stationary head are not disrupted. Keep your wrists completely relaxed and make a TOTAL MOTION that maintains lag and does not unload too soon. If your wrists become tight to try to maintain the BRW or FLW, you are steering.

I know because I have done it (STEERING) for many years. I read where Homer said that if you could learn to play with a FLW, you would break 80 tomorrow, so I started holding my wrist rigid through impact and it killed my swing. What Homer did not say, but is understood, is that you must learn to play with a FLW while sustaining LAG.


Booooooooom!!!! Homerun!!!! Fantastic post . . .

mrodock 02-06-2008 04:07 PM

Maintain the bent right wrist by maintaining lag pressure which is not done through effort but by accelerating the club in a manner that is not beyond your pivot capacities. That is, do not try to swing the club faster than you can turn.

Having said that, I still cannot figure out how Kenny Perry can hit the ball as hard as he does and not pivot that hard or fast on the downswing. Seemingly though his rhythm is slightly compromised, from photos I have seen, but not to a degree that prevents him from being a premiere ballstriker on tour.

okie 02-06-2008 04:10 PM

Noted
 
Warning noted!

I figure as long as that right arm is straightening I ought to be OK, right?

New Goal Revision

I hereby do solemnly swear to hereto-henceforth-forthwith keep my right wrist bent and level while straightening my right elbow through the utilization of either centrifugal force or the use of muscular thrust etc. etc.

Yoda 02-06-2008 04:40 PM

Overcoming Steering . . . By Fair Means or Foul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elliskit (Post 48973)
I know because I have done it (STEERING) for many years. I read where Homer said that if you could learn to play with a FLW, you would break 80 tomorrow, so I started holding my wrist rigid through impact and it killed my swing. What Homer did not say, but is understood, is that you must learn to play with a FLW while sustaining LAG.

The Flat Left Wrist is the desired mid-condition of the Wrist's Horizontal Motion ( Flat, Bent and Arched). Steering is, primarily, holding the Left Wrist in the Turned condition of its Rotational Motion (Vertical, Turned and Rolled) thereby inhibiting its proper Roll (to the Left) 'through the Ball'.

When you attempted to impose the Flat Condition in your Horizontal Motion -- remember, Homer also always said, "Willpower isn't enough" -- you unconsiously inhibited the correct Rotational Motion (which, almost certainly, was the true problem to begin with).

You are now using a personal Zone #2 (Club Control) 'Feel' key -- Clubhead Lag Pressure via a "completely relaxed" Wrists -- and that is allowing the correct Rotational Motion to occur. Be sure you understand the correct Mechanics (Wrist Action / 7-18 and Hinge Action / 7-10 and their Variations in Chapter 10) and how your current Feel enables you to produce them. This knowledge will enable you to maintain a Firm Grip (1-L #3), yet still achieve flexible Wrist Action (4-0).

Congratulations, elliskit!

You have met the Golfer's Public Enemy #1 -- the first Snare . . . Steering -- and emerged victorious!

:salut:

Toolish 02-06-2008 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 48994)
The Flat Left Wrist is the desired mid-condition of the Wrist's Horizontal Motion ( Flat, Bent and Arched). Steering is, primarily, holding the Left Wrist in the Turned condition of its Rotational Motion (Vertical, Turned and Rolled) thereby inhibiting its proper Roll (to the Left) 'through the Ball'.

When you attempted to impose the Flat Condition in your Horizontal Motion -- remember, Homer also always said, "Willpower isn't enough" -- you unconsiously inhibited the correct Rotational Motion (which, almost certainly, was the true problem to begin with).


Lynn, do you see this a lot with students, in the attempt to keep the FLW they don't roll it through impact? I have been through that stage myself :naughty: and I am coming out the other side now, but I have seen it in a lot of other golfers. Tell them to hit down on the ball with a flat left wrist and the first couple of shots are shanks or 45° open clubfaces. It seems the idea of a flat left wrist freezes people up and they don't allow it to roll over. How do you get passed that with your students?

okie 02-06-2008 06:25 PM

#3acc.
 
While you wait for a correct answer!

with basic motion you can zero out #3 acc. Why? It shortens the distance the clubhead travels in order to remain in rhythm with the left arm (grip is more in the palm) the roll is quicker. Wanna hit a hook? Zero out #3 Acc. with a fuller motion! This is another reason why basic motion is genius! A beginner is "helped" with the roll by zeroing out #3Acc. So perhaps look for how the club is placed in the left hand (or right hand if you are a warlock)

#3Acc roll is the fastest (perhaps most elusive) move in golf, and largely a function of the grip.


Set me straight if I have deviated from the path of truth!

12 piece bucket 02-06-2008 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolish (Post 49005)
Lynn, do you see this a lot with students, in the attempt to keep the FLW they don't roll it through impact? I have been through that stage myself :naughty: and I am coming out the other side now, but I have seen it in a lot of other golfers. Tell them to hit down on the ball with a flat left wrist and the first couple of shots are shanks or 45° open clubfaces. It seems the idea of a flat left wrist freezes people up and they don't allow it to roll over. How do you get passed that with your students?


Teach 'em to grip it like man . . . 10-2-D Turn it and BURN IT.

okie 02-06-2008 09:31 PM

More "hooding" than a klan BBQ
 
Just protect the left kneecap (right knee cap if your are a warlock:happy3: )

elliskit 02-07-2008 02:29 PM

Hail to the professor!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 48994)
When you attempted to impose the Flat Condition in your Horizontal Motion -- remember, Homer also always said, "Willpower isn't enough" -- you unconsiously inhibited the correct Rotational Motion (which, almost certainly, was the true problem to begin with).

WOW! Mr. Blake, you are amazing! The depth and clarity of your posts never ceases to amaze me. It truly is a sign of great wisdom when you can get to the root issue, just from a simple post, even when the person posting has no idea what the root is. You are a DOCTOR of the GOLF swing in every sense.
:notworthy

Thank you for generously sharing your wisdom on this site. You know that there is much substance in written matter when you can go back and read it over and over again after letting it incubate and it continues to unfold like the petals of a blooming flower.

I hope to meet you soon, maybe at the reunion (I am not sure if I qualify)?
I actually had begun reading your posts on Chuck Evans' site and then the TGM site shortly after the Pine Needles school. I would have loved to have attended, but I was not ready. I believe that now I am almost ready for beginner status. If not at the reunion, I need to schedule an appointment with the doctor soon.

elliskit 02-07-2008 02:41 PM

The dirt
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by okie (Post 48987)
Warning noted!

I figure as long as that right arm is straightening I ought to be OK, right?

New Goal Revision

I hereby do solemnly swear to hereto-henceforth-forthwith keep my right wrist bent and level while straightening my right elbow through the utilization of either centrifugal force or the use of muscular thrust etc. etc.

I like that one better.
Jeff really had it right when he said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by golfgnome (Post 48782)
Extensor action and body rotation create the finish swivel and allow PP#1,2, and 3 to remainglued to the shaft.

The reason I posted what I did was that I did not want you to make the same mistake I made. The first time I saw Ted, he had me open the book to chapter 9 and read out loud:
"EMPHATICALLY, the hands are not educated until they control the pivot."
So, while the HANDS are the only part of the body that touches the club, the feet are the only part of the body that are connected to something that does not move. The swing has to get from the base to the hands through the pivot. That could be part of what Hogan meant when he said that the secret is in the dirt; the "dirt" is the foundation of the swing.

Yoda 02-07-2008 04:42 PM

Missing Puzzle Piece
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toolish (Post 49005)

Lynn, do you see this a lot with students, in the attempt to keep the FLW they don't roll it through impact?

It seems the idea of a flat left wrist freezes people up and they don't allow it to roll over. How do you get past that with your students?

To produce powerful and accurate golf shots, the Arms must overtake the Body and the Club must overtake the Hands. Only in this manner can the Golfer achieve true Mechanical Advantage (and its Power). In other words, the Golfer's Flail (2-K) must operate freely.

Most students attempting to incorporate the Flat Left Wrist into their Stroke Pattern also override (via Steering) the mandatory Clubhead Overtaking (and hence, its proper Closing). Remember, the proper Release contains two components, Uncock and Roll, not just Uncock.

I remember one particular student -- a college player struggling to make the team -- who came to me in the summer of 2006. [Seems to me I wrote a post about this.] We began our session as I usually do, around the greens. We hit the little Shots, first Chips with Basic Motion (no Wristcock); then Chip-Pitches (a little more Arm Motion and with Wristcock added); and finally, longer pitches with a definite Pivot Motion and Wristcock (but still no Finish Swivel, which is introduced in Stage Three of the Basic Motion Curriculum / 12-5-3).

The guy's action was beautiful. His Grip, Stance and Posture were perfect. His Head was centered, his Power Package and Plane alignments were dead on, and he executed each Stroke flawlessly. Had you told me he was a playing professional, I would not have been surprised. In fact, as I watched him, I couldn't help but think, "I've got a full day with this young man. What are we going to do?"

Then we went to Practice Tee, and I asked him to hit a full Pitching Wedge.

:shock:

Fore right!

Same thing with the 8-iron and 5-iron. By the time we got to the Fairway Wood and Driver, he could barely keep it on the range. I had never seen anything like it (and haven't since): a TOUR quality Basic and Acquired Motion, and at best, a 10-handicap Total Motion. I took his Driver from him, handed him a dowel, and looked him dead in the eye:

"Is what I just saw normal for you?"

"Yes," he said. "I hit it everything right . . . and short."

"Well, my young friend, get ready, because I am about to change your golfing life forever."

8-)

He had told me that he developed his Short Stroke Patterns by "reading all your posts" and "concentrating on the Flat Left Wrist." Which was wonderful. But what wasn't so wonderful was that he had absolutely no concept of the correct action past the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). And that inability to Finish was jamming up the whole works through Impact in his longer Strokes.

In less than ten minutes with the dowel, I taught him the proper Overtaking Action from Release through the Finish Swivel. I handed him back his 8-Iron with instructions to "Make that Motion . . . let the Motion make the Shot." The first swing took his breath away (mine, too! :)): He nailed it dead straight and long.

:thumright

Same with the 5-Iron and Hybrid.

:thumleft:

Then the Driver . . .

P-O-W!

:dance:

We both stood there and just looked at each other. A minor miracle had just occured, and it deserved its own moment of silence.

On the Lesson Tee, as in life, some days are better than others.

This was a very good day.

:golfcart2:

okie 02-07-2008 07:49 PM

Encore!
 
It is like listening to Beethoven's Fifth!

mrodock 02-07-2008 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 49129)
To produce powerful and accurate golf shots, the Arms must overtake the Body and the Club must overtake the Hands. Only in this manner can the Golfer achieve true Mechanical Advantage (and its Power). In other words, the Golfer's Flail (2-K) must operate freely.

Most students attempting to incorporate the Flat Left Wrist into their Stroke Pattern also override (via Steering) the mandatory Clubhead Overtaking (and hence, its proper Closing). Remember, the proper Release contains two components, Uncock and Roll, not just Uncock.

I remember one particular student -- a college player struggling to make the team -- who came to me in the summer of 2006. [Seems to me I wrote a post about this.] We began our session as I usually do, around the greens. We hit the little Shots, first Chips with Basic Motion (no Wristcock); then Chip-Pitches (a little more Arm Motion and with Wristcock added); and finally, longer pitches with a definite Pivot Motion and Wristcock (but still no Finish Swivel, which is introduced in Stage Three of the Basic Motion Curriculum / 12-5-3).

The guy's action was beautiful. His Grip, Stance and Posture were perfect. His Head was centered, his Power Package and Plane alignments were dead on, and he executed each Stroke flawlessly. Had you told me he was a playing professional, I would not have been surprised. In fact, as I watched him, I couldn't help but think, "I've got a full day with this young man. What are we going to do?"

Then we went to Practice Tee, and I asked him to hit a full Pitching Wedge.

:shock:

Fore right!

Same thing with the 8-iron and 5-iron. By the time we got to the Fairway Wood and Driver, he could barely keep it on the range. I had never seen anything like it (and haven't since): a TOUR quality Basic and Acquired Motion, and at best, a 10-handicap Total Motion. I took his Driver from him, handed him a dowel, and looked him dead in the eye:

"Is what I just saw normal for you?"

"Yes," he said. "I hit it everything right . . . and short."

"Well, my young friend, get ready, because I am about to change your golfing life forever."

8-)

He had told me that he developed his Short Stroke Patterns by "reading all your posts" and "concentrating on the Flat Left Wrist." Which was wonderful. But what wasn't so wonderful was that he had absolutely no concept of the correct action past the Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). And that inability to Finish was jamming up the whole works through Impact in his longer Strokes.

In less than ten minutes with the dowel, I taught him the proper Overtaking Action from Release through the Finish Swivel. I handed him back his 8-Iron with instructions to "Make that Motion . . . let the Motion make the Shot." The first swing took his breath away (mine, too! :)): He nailed it dead straight and long.

:thumright

Same with the 5-Iron and Hybrid.

:thumleft:

Then the Driver . . .

P-O-W!

:dance:

We both stood there and just looked at each other. A minor miracle had just occured, and it deserved its own moment of silence.

On the Lesson Tee, as in life, some days are better than others.

This was a very good day.

:golfcart2:

That's flat out awesome, as Okie said!


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