Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 53518)

Pistol - you wrote-: "---but i suspect some amount of active right hand participation don't you wonder why hogan had a tonne of it".

I am amazed that you can infer the presence of active right hand muscle action simply by looking at that photo of Trevor Immelman, and I am equally amazed that you can conclude that Hogan had a tonne of active right hand action in his swing - simply by observing a swing video of his swing.

In terms of what represents active right hand action in Hogan's swing, you now seem to be referring to an active right wrist ulnar deviation uncocking action. Even if I were to accept your argument that active right forearm muscle were involved in Hogan's swing, the muscles that produce that particular right wrist 'karate-chop' action must be the forearm muscles that ulnarly deviate the wrist.

Here is a photo showing the forearm muscles that produce ulnar deviation of the wrist.



The muscles colored in yellow represent the two forearm muscles that produce ulnar deviation of the wrist (1 = extensor carpi ulnaris; 2 = flexor carpi ulnaris). In terms of the volume of forearm muscle bulk, they represent only a small fraction of total forearm muscle bulk. I, therefore, cannot imagine how they can contribute much to swing power through the impact zone - even if they are actively contracting to their maximum degree.

Whatever Hogan meant by "three right hands", I would be amazed to learn that he was referring to 3 x the forearm muscle power contributed by those two forearm muscles.

Jeff.

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 53518)

Pistol - you wrote-: "---but i suspect some amount of active right hand participation don't you wonder why hogan had a tonne of it".

I am amazed that you can infer the presence of active right hand muscle action simply by looking at that photo of Trevor Immelman, and I am equally amazed that you can conclude that Hogan had a tonne of active right hand action in his swing - simply by observing a swing video of his swing.

In terms of what represents active right hand action in Hogan's swing, you now seem to be referring to an active right wrist ulnar deviation uncocking action. Even if I were to accept your argument that active right forearm muscle were involved in Hogan's swing, the muscles that produce that particular right wrist 'karate-chop' action must be the forearm muscles that ulnarly deviate the wrist.

Here is a photo showing the forearm muscles that produce ulnar deviation of the wrist.



The muscles colored in yellow represent the two forearm muscles that produce ulnar deviation of the wrist (1 = extensor carpi ulnaris; 2 = flexor carpi ulnaris). In terms of the volume of forearm muscle bulk, they represent only a small fraction of total forearm muscle bulk. I, therefore, cannot imagine how they can contribute much to swing power through the impact zone - even if they are actively contracting to their maximum degree.

Whatever Hogan meant by "three right hands", I would be amazed to learn that he was referring to 3 x the forearm muscle power contributed by those two forearm muscles.

Jeff.

Originally Posted by Bigwill (Post 53533)

Jeff,

Since the right wrist is hyperextended in the backswing, why wouldn't the muscles involved in the downswing be the flexors?

Also, you stated earlier that the ulnar deviation is passive. Would that not negate the use of the muscles that do this (ul. dev.), or are you describing active/passive from the standpoint of intent, rather than an actual physical standpoint?

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 53542)

Pistol

You wrote-: "And while you are digging there can you go in to great detail for me as to how Hogan squared the clubface to the arc relatively early in his downswing and believe me there is some great photos out there that will prove this. Since he got the club "laid off" and open relative to the plane at the top if he just Pulled the club what would happen??"

This is off-topic. I will start another thread to answer this question.

Jeff.

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 53488)

Yoda

Thank you for the clarification. It is now much more precisely expressed, and it is now 100% concordant with many statements that you have previously made in your archived posts. I was worried that I may have misunderstood your previous archived posts when I first saw the phrase "driven by that action". Your now preferred use of the term "motion" promotes a very different understanding of the biomechanics of the right elbow's motion.

Pistol

You state that TT is implying a right hand/wrist throw. That "belief" really confuses me because I have understood TT to believe in HK's teaching that the right wrist should remain bent throughout the downswing and early (+/- late) followthrough. If the right wrist remains bent, then it is not released, so in what sense is the right wrist/hand thrown (in a way that doesn't involve the elbow joint)?

You also quote as "evidence" for your belief that Hogan used an active right hand/wrist throw the following Hogan statement -: "I wish I had three right hands."

You obviously have a very different understanding of what the word "evidence" means with respect to understanding the biomechanics of a particular golfer's swing.

Jeff.