Conceptual problems
 

The problem with understanding golf for me is my struggle to take 2 dimensional drawings, graphs and photos and translate them to a 3 dimensional motion. Although I realized you swing on an inclined plane my first years in golf I swung up and down ie performing the face on view. In recent years with more concentration on rotation and throw out I have coveted the few views from the top I can find. And then to complicate matters I have tried to understand the on plane views from the rear with the arguments about camera location. Might we next have 3 D views of the swing using the 3 D glasses in common use in recent animated movies. In my case my dyslexic brain has to translate all of these forum posts into left handed english. Oh for a left handed forum, a left handed pro shop, a left handed course and a left handed urinal. And by the way our member Brandon Inge(Detroit Tiger 3B recent no home runs in the All Star Home Run Derby) hits it 380 yards using a baseball swing. So if we want increased speed and distance perhaps we should be trying to emulate the great hitters of baseball instead of Hogan.

Ted Williams and the "Wee Ice Mon"
 

Agreed, then you will start to look like Hogan. At the very least you won't being hitting "at the ball".

Interesting point. Sort of Melhourne ish maybe.

Im thinking the Red Sox hitters should start working with Hank Haney as well. Then the Blue Jays would be ok. Parallel planes and a right wrist throw should just about do it.

I dont understand the implications of the Golden Spiral (or TGM for that matter) but could the Hand Path it portrays be merely symptomatic of a late release? Automatic snap release say as opposed to Sweep?

I do hold divine proportion in high regard so please dont take this the wrong way, NM. Sorry for the chicken and egg question.

You really think that if they didn't attract the category that all of your "peeps" fall into, it couldn't become revolutionary? Did you stop taking the anti-delusional medication that the doctor told you to take? :naughty:

P.S. the catalogs haven't shown up yet - are you using them? :confused1

Hmmmmmmmmm . . . . .. must have stuck to the postman for some reason. . . . I thought you were through with forums . . . other than the ones that show up in 1967 Penthouse mags anyhow . . . . how's the sheep farm?

At last! A voice of reason and clarity! MIKE O!!!!!

Foul Balls
 

O.B.

Your thoughts must run in the right direction. Ever wonder why baseball players have such good alignments at Impact with the bat and baseball, yet many baseball players have poor Impact Alignments when you give them a golf club and put a golf ball in front of them. Like Hogan said about his secret, it is up here (pointing to his head).

IMPACT


TGM applies to any Stick and Ball Sport.



And the Best Of All: an On-Plane Right Forearm Have you ever seen a better looking pair of Flying Wedges? That Right Forearm is Directly Opposed to the Primary Lever.

Thanks Drew. Though maybe a little off topic please expand. Aiming Point? Or would it influence hand path and put us back on topic?

Double D you are good. Birds eye vs straight on, the laws of motion not being unique to golf but universal.

But im still curious about Drewits comment about intent. Golfs false logic problem or whatever. Dont hit up? Steering a straight path? Here in lies the solution to golfs cause and effect puzzle.

All of this no doubt effects hand path to my mind. (Back on topic) Intent influencing hand path. The hands direct but only as the brains outpost.

Somewhat related to hand path is the notion that the right palm will not ride the inclined plane in release if not for the position of the right elbow. Pitch elbow say. Im also wondering if the Golden Spiral would be wider and less Golden if the accumulators released earlier.

So hand path isnt just a hand thing in and of itself. The hands, assuming they need a spiral path, need to command other components to comply. Hand path being somewhat resultant. Assuming a straight left arm if you want the spiral to tighten near impact, the left shoulder must move up. Homer said that all left shoulder movements should really be the result of right shoulder movement..............which means the right shoulder needs to drive down plane in release. You know where Im going. Put me in the all roads lead back to Homer camp if you must.

But the Golden Spiral I find fascinating having seen it at work for about twenty years now. There is something to it.

Thank you Upp - How's the weather in Ohio? 90 days of sunshine in Seattle, 90 days of rain in Maine - where's that leave you?

Bucket, you know my only goal in posting is to destroy you, upset Delaware Dave with irrelvant non-golf posts and bring joy and harmony to all other forum members :eyes:

Is this what Homer meant by "divergent forces", Mike?

Consider Jason Z (Fake). 340 yard Drive. Hand Path. What makes the Hands Travel Down that Path? Zone 1 and Zone 2.

JZ hits the Ball far. Is the Hands path causing a problem with his distance. NO WAY.

This is a link to the Video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnC2G7sqLWs




Fake Jason Z.

Interesting plotting there D. But can it be laid over the Golden Spiral graph? Im not sure if they are apples to apples. Not sure how they measure or designate their center. Maybe. But your point is a good one regardless. From many zones, one hand path.

Im also wondering about plane shifts. Take the Golden Spiral and look at it from a down the line view say. Would the spiral be seen to travel a flatter plane angles as it gets closer to impact? Like a funnel cloud or water going down a drain. So the hand path would be approaching the center (what ever that is) and flattening out at the same time to a degree consistent with the plane angle or shift. Elbow plane for some types. Moe wouldnt have much of a shift though. The more the shift the more conical the spiral.

PS dont think that is Jason Zubak. But who ever it is he is LONG. Why do you say the TSP will steepen the hand path? Do you assume axis tilt?

This is the "Real" Jason Zuback in the "Fastest Balls on Earth Video"..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kp2J8gW1qw

His Hand Path doesn't coincide with The Golden Spiral but it does match the Hacker Hand Path pretty well.

??? the Video says Jason Zuback. I don't know. He doesn't look like JZ. BUT, the next video, Jason ZUBACK "Fastest BAllS on Earth" is Jason Zuback. I've outlined his Hand path.

One thing that almost all of the world long drive hitters have in common is NO PLANE SHIFT on the Downstroke.

Moe Norman. His Hand Path looks like a STRAIGHT LINE between two arcs to me. Different from the Golden Spiral.

So the cloud followed you as usual . . . . . goat herders fear you . . . but not as much as soap and deoderant.

So you had some relevant posts?

Sure man . . . . if the TSP is a steeper plane stands to reason the hand path would be steeper no? So this is my submission . . . . you check most pros . . . the get on the elbow plane eventually . . . . question is why? Does physics have an answer?

Attachment 1883
Attachment 1884

Things are bad when Upp is turning on me! I only wrote "irrelevant posts" for those newbie members - obviously seasoned posters would think that I was repeating myself with irrelevant as an adjective to the noun "posts".

UPP yours,

"Ideas cannot be fought except by means of better ideas. The battle consists not of opposing but of exposing. Not of denouncing but of disproving. Not of evading but of boldy proclaiming a full, consistent and radical alternative"

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary ........"

Movement is the integration of the past, present and future - memory is a tool for predicting the future

The nurse just came into my room - gotta go - I'll be back

Yes, I'm on plane and Bucket is off plane - Divergent forces. Hizzle Wizzle Fo Shizzle!:headbang:

The Right Elbow travels Down, Out and Forward.

An attempted Straight Line Delivery Path allows the Right Elbow to Clear the Right Hip, which is the Right Elbow Passing-by the Right Hip on its way to its Release Location (before the Shoulder are Square to the Baseline of the Inclined Plane). Only an On-Plane Downstroke Right Shoulder can Drive the Right Elbow past the Hip Front to a TSP Location for Release and Only if using a Rigid Power Package. Go to the Top of the Swing and aim the #3 Pressure Point at the Ball (with a fixed right elbow) and don't allow the pivot to disturb that alignment. Actually, the Right Hip Stays (Back) out of the Way of the Driving Right Forearm (Rigid Power Package). If you allow the Hips to move toward the Plane Line (Standing up) getting out of Posture, then typically a "Blocked" shot occurs.

Otherwise the Right Elbow will be Driven to in-front of the Right Hip (elbow plane - not clearing the Right Hip) for Release, because a pitched Elbow cannot travel any farther Forward On-Plane. This is normal for anyone who straightens the Right Elbow during the downswing before Release, because doing so stops the Right Elbow from being Driven farther Forward. It's a simple procedure. Go to the Top of the Swing and Rotate toward Impact and the Elbow will get stuck in-front of the Right Hip (Elbow Plane).

Use this simple test to see how far the Right Elbow can travel when the Right Hip Doesn't interfere. Address the Ball with your right foot about 15 inches directly behind your left foot. Using Short pitches, notice how far the right elbow will travel before Impact.

When the Left Arm, at the Top of the Swing, is Closer than about 45 degrees to the Chest, you'll probably end up on the Elbow Plane anyway.

Still disrobing on psych visits?

KOC you find the greatest stuff.

I see this, thanks, but from a DTL point of view only. Ill take some time to go over Daryls thoughts when Im next at the Lab. How the heck do you do smiley faces?

Physics or just structural engineering? The Right Arm Flying Wedge as structure. The arm not being on plane until the right elbow is etc. Have you ever tried that deal where you put your clubhead up against something solid and then just try to bend the shaft.........you very quickly adopt: perfect wedges, strong pp#3 and #1 and a left thumb running down the aft of the shaft and grip pressure and and....

Sorry NM, now that Mike O is back staying on topic is out of style again.

I sense this is written not from your usual think tank, table 4123 at Spiaggia but from the range. Are you actually hitting balls again?

Wait, "Driving Right Forearm" ? And Pitch elbow? You sir are experimenting again. Non automatic snappish release, sequenced but with a right arm throw? Why You're Mad Doctor, insane. You're messing with Homers code, you're creating a monster.

Then again maybe you dont mean "actively" driving right forearm.

P.S. One more reason for a blocked shot........an arched left wrist which moves low point. Something I learned from Tiger. Also until my last visit with Lynn I thought that a cleared right hip (for start up and start down) was accomplished with a single move, a turn of the right hip. Wrongo. Clear it going back with a turn, clear it in startdown with a delayed turn, slide. Two moves but One Love. Axis Tilt and lag loading etc.

I've been going out once a week. :golf:

Driven Right Forearm. :salut:

I agree with the two-way Hip Clearing. That's what I mean. Lynn told you that? I'm glad to hear he got it right. :laughing9

Nope...
 

Pseudo-science.

Ya can't get hand path from video (or stills)

as they say...

If it was easy any trained monkey could do it.

Who said so?

If you can see/measure Head Bobbing, Study Car Crashes, hi-speed Manufacturing Processes, Space Shuttle Launches, etc, from images and/or Video, then any Monkey Can Get Hand Path From Pictures or video. Who needs 1/16" accuracy?

I guess Golf Teachers who use video are trained Monkeys. :laughing9

Simpleton...
 

Daryl

I say so. Anybody with half a brain and has thought about it... says so.

I should not have to (and will not) explain why it is not possible.

You go right ahead and keep deluding yourself

I could care less.

When you get the other half, let's hear what it says.

It's interesting that my Traces coincide with Dr. Nesbits scientific Study. The only difference is that he used 3 hack golfers to develop his incomplete computer model and my method didn't cost a dime using the best Ball Strikers.

I would like to send you and Dr. Nesbit a box of Tissue to wipe away your tears. Would you like your own Box or would you like to share one with Dr. Nesbit?

Daryl ...

You keep that box of tissue. You obviously need it to wipe away all that brown stinky stuff you are so full of.

Ok. you don't get a box of tissue so don't expect one in the mail. I'm sending two boxes to Dr. Nesbit.

The only brown stuff I'm full of is that bullshit study I read by your best friend, Dr. Nesbit.

He takes three hacks and builds a computer model. Now he can teach everyone how to swing a Golf club. How Can You Be So Gullible??

Hundreds of years and 10,000 golf books and thousands of pros and 1,000's of combined years experience on this web-site alone not including the 10's of thousands of others on other web-sites and you post that Dr. Nesbit has found the answer. That's naïve of you. But, I read the study anyway.

Some Engineer gets three grad students to slap on sensors. He captures their hand paths and claims that the hand path of the better golfer is different than the less skilled Golfers. Then he develops a model to predict the outcome of different hand paths on club head speed. SO WHAT?

Is this the Second or Third Website you found to push this stuff on. What did the other web-sites tell ya? Are they "full of it" too?

I'll bet that more money is spent taking photo's and video of the Golf Swing than of Women :laughing9 . That's how much video and photography is available today. Then you say that studying them is pseudo-scientific. Obviously, Millions of people don't agree with you. Listen to yourself. Do you really believe what you say?

In the Golf world, whenever someone says "I found the Answer" (Dr. Nesbit), it's "Snake Oil". There's always people doing it differently and doing it better to prove you wrong. Ya know what's worse? Dr. Nesbit is irrelevant.

The Low Score always wins.

Yup. Clear it and clear it again. Who knew?

Actively driven? Like thrusting driven?

Driven along with the Power Package by the Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. I think it has something to do with the Golden Spiral.

Dont get off topic there Thruster.

NMG - another cool post. You come up with some mad scientist stuff. Thanks.

Maine's new Governor
 

And I was just about to sign your nomination papers.