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You are right and it should not go unoticed!

Metal drivers were introduced in the late 70s early 80s I believe. I think the first metal wood win was with a Taylor Made (could be wrong though).
You are right! Taylor Made in deed. Fellow Okie, Ron Streck. 1981, or 1982 Houston Open. Great guy...great lag!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yodeli (Post 61224)

Lol, :laughing9
Merci OB,!

If you need help with your geometry, I setup a blog with two articles you might find interesting.
These are reminders of the geometry of the stroke: you already know the concepts but seing pictures sometimes helps lighting some bulbs in the brain.
The drawings are a bit dramatic but exageration helps in seeing normaly unseen things!
Geometry of the stroke face-on: this one helps seing low point and will tell you a lot about what to do to achieve correct ball/turf contact.
Geometry of the stroke top-view: this one is my favorite - rarely seen - the best way to understand the requirement to hit out on the ball!
This drawing will tell you a lot about ball position relative to clubhead travel:
Say you play a wedge with a ball back in the stance. This drawing shows that your clubhead must still do a lot of travel out after impact in order to execute a perfect stroke.
On the contrary, with a driver and a ball positionned at low point, the ball is also at the outmost point of the clubhead travel. The clubhead will travel immediately in after impact.

Intuitively, we think about those two cats as two different strokes but it's really the same and unique geometric principle!

Isn't TGM cool? :thumleft:

Thank you Yodeli

I like your blog, the graphics are very very good.

The "Hitter vs Swinger" Blakebuster free video you directed to me is great to see again. I also took another look at "Dowels and Wedges" and I finally have it figured out!

Two world class golf instruction videos that are available here for the cost of admission. Which is free. I had watched these videos many times before but now after some time the return to them helped to fill in so many blank spots in my knowledge. This stuff is precise but the ball demands precision doesnt it.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery...ry.php?cat=517

I had confused/mixed the direction of thrust and the on plan motion of the pressure points or clubhead!!! No longer. I had not understood tracing to be the visual equivalent of the on plane path of the hands.

Cant wait to hit some balls tomorrow with the thrust going all the way down to both arms straight, full extension of the right arm. I know from experience there is magic to be had by getting to both arm straight but the direction of the thrust was confusing for me. Thank you.

Here are some jpegs from the "Dowels and Wedges" video

Spear the fish
ob

Edit; to get this back on track. So there is a lot of downward thrust required post low point, post impact, indeed all the way to both arms straight. For the person attempting the high launch low spin driver with the ball tee'd in front of low point..........the clubhead will be coming up and in (better take this in into account when addressing the ball) but the thrust is very much down and so there is no feeling of hitting up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 61233)

Brilliant post OB.
You got it 100% right! :salut:

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_mind_golfer (Post 61205)

Yodeli

Venturi? As in Ken Venturi? Surely you're not referring to the aerodynamic venturi effect (a decrease in static pressure_ which occurs in contracting duct flows situations).... which a golf ball is not... ever. Its the Magnus effect... circulation which causes lift just like on an airplane wing that you want to be talking about. And as far as the relative magnitudes are concerned... a 50 - 50 side v. back spin ratio would put the lift vector off a a 45 degree angle, in which case the ball would neither fly very far nor stay on the of the fairway... unless a gale just so happened to be blowing perpendicular the the fairway (at just the right speed) in which case the tournament would be postponed anyway.

Low boring flight on windy days? i.e. tee it low and de-loft accordingly .... yes ... there is less wind (aka graidient) close to earth's surface... makes sense in that situation but attempting to put a "counterbalancin" "english" side-spin on? That's messing with disaster imhop. Did Ken Venturi do that?

Hi no_mind_golfer.

I'm not an aeronautics engineer but I think Homer knew a bit about aerodynamics...
I was just using chapter "2-B TRAJECTORY CONTROL" as a reference. I might be wrong but Homer is talking about the Venturi Effect in there: "A speeding, spinning ball is subject to the Venturi Effect, meaning that an increase in the velocity of a flow of air decreases its cross-sectional pressure" etc...

Anyway, I've never heard about the Magnus effect and you could be right as well.
However, we all agree that a draw is giving the longest possible shot with a lower trajectory than a fade for example.
So it makes sense to use such a shot (a "punched drawing ball") while the wind is facing you (I never sait sideways).
But you are right; the configuration of the fairway should comply with such a shot: Dogleg left or wide enough to accommodate for the right to left ball flight.

Now, the only Ken Venturi effect I found doesn't relate to Trajectory Control but can keep you forever young :laughing1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSbDMqPI2Ng

Its the Magnus effect....

Hi Yodeli

click->Magnus Effect

I can assure you I'm right and Homer is wrong. He wasn't either an aerodynamicist or an engineer. He was QC technician who did the best he could given limited knowledge. If you're going to teach it... you have an obligation to get it right IMOP. Glad I could be of some help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yodeli (Post 61238)

what is in a name?

Did Homer describe the phenomenon correctly, but misname it?

Yodeli,
I have one question regarding the links you provided for the face-on and top view swings.

In both cases it looks like the "Impact" point is in front of the right shoulder? Since everyone has discussed ball position as being no further back than between the feet (center).

The low-point being in front of the left shoulder (right hander).

Thanks,
Wali

Artistic license to get the point across. With the "extreme" it is easier to draw the diagram and show the "divot" and the "out".

Extreme drawings

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfguru (Post 61299)

Artistic license to get the point across. With the "extreme" it is easier to draw the diagram and show the "divot" and the "out".

Hi Wali, Golfguru is right: the drawings are exaggerated and not at scale. The purpose here is to put the emphasis on what happens between impact and low point and to see the role of the left shoulder as the center of the stroke.

The reality is less 'extreme' and, of course, the common ball position ranges from the middle of your feet to in front of the left shoulder.

However, you could choose to play a ball in front of your right foot with a wide stance...but to be geometrically correct, you would have to dig deep into the ground to low point and beyond with a divot the size of your stance - ouch!!! &H

This is maybe the reason why we usually shorten the stance with wedges :wink:!

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_mind_golfer (Post 61251)

Good point no_mind, I was too lazy to check out what you wrote because I used to listen to Homer's words as a TGM fanatic monk(ey) :monky: !
But the link you provided is quite clear...
What Homer described as the Venturi effect is indeed the Magnus effect :shock:.

Aaaaah, at last, The Man made a mistake!
This TGM stuff was way too perfect to be true!
Homer was human: It makes me a believer monk :monky: more than ever!
Gimme a banana!