The illusion, seeing vs application -Hand controlled Pivot
 

I was told by a G.S.E.D that the sensation of the swing (He was assuming that I am a swinger). You should feel like chopping off your hand form your forearm and tape it back together. And just fully make use of the CF and the pivot in order to carry out the swing pattern. Because of that statement, I hit fat, I swing flat for a while… before I start going back to my previous pattern
Surely, in Golfing machine, we got to train our hand and educate them. But in order to carry out a golf swing, I would say that 80% of the work is down by the fingers and wrist and not the pivot. (Where pivot motion is very much passive)
I do understand the concept of Swinger and Hitter, but when I am carrying out my stroke, I find that I am not belonging to neither of the category “NOT S nor H”.
My believe of my swing pattern are as follow
The first half (First 90degree of the club head travel)
When I am performing my swing, I look at it as a relay, where I am using Left forearm takeaway, and I set my right wrist position at impact fix (Forward press) and a conscious right wrist bend motion to the top (is very much Making use of the CF lag as well as it is a conscious motion too. )I feel the pivot is more on my wrist rather then the body (but obviously I can feel the pressure during the swing), for example if you are wiring a rock to a piece of string, and swing it with your wrist, the centre of the pivot is the wrist. In golf I presume in order to generate more speed, we would have to make use of the leverage on the wrist and not the pivot of the body
concious action- bend right wrist
concious action- drag load
Passive action – right elbow bend
The second half (the 2xx degree downswing to finish)
On the down swing, left wrist cock, I feel like using #2PP to drag the club down and out, as well as I am using my right elbow to thrust it out on impact. I make sure I can feel my right foot and fingers+club+pressure through out the swing. On impact apart from the right elbow thrust, I am feeling both #1pp and #3pp too. And for the left forearm roll after impact, I think it is pretty much a passive action. I think it is more like depending on the shot that I am playing and the club that I am using.

Conscious motion – flat right foot
Conscious motion – right shoulder staying intact if I am hitting a draw and straight shot. Shoulder is going with the momentum generate by the weight and the swinging of the wrist.
Conscious motion – hitting down and out, particularly I feel that if I am hitting my wedge as you can see the result on the divot.

Through out the first half and the second half, I just don’t think about my pivot at all. Finger and wrist controlled the whole body motion, for example the bend right elbow on the downswing before delivery the package, a lot magazine was saying that, it is conscious motion, and I think the bend right elbow is pretty much a result of having bending the right wrist, and the motion should be passive.


Could we call that Education hands, I just do not understand… As supposingly, if I am a Swinger, I am using totally the CF and the only part about my educated hand would be when I am aiming the hand at impact. If I am a hitter, I should only think of the right arm thrusting (Drive Load) as well as having my club face staying square at the top.

Can I say that I am a Swinger Synchronized Hitter? Where I have an open club face at the top, I drag load, I have quite a big swing arc. BUT, I thrust my right elbow at impact, rather then using the CF to do it.

Thanks
:D

Pivot is the body. The body turn is the pivot. Zone #1.

The ‘wrist’ in the whirling rock on the string would not be the your wrist but your power package- shoulders, arms, hands all pivoting around a Stationary Post. 1-L-1 /2

What you feel in your hands is the tightening of the “Endless Belt Effect,” 7-23.

A straight spoke, "keeping the 7", 'connection'

Rhythm

Extensor action can be a very important part in understanding these concepts

No sense preaching to the choir but here goes anyway- lol

Extensor Action is the key to the golf swing. Without it the swing is a mere shell- a machine without a force.

Extensor Action is the tension that runs the machine.

It is the “Life Force” of The Golfing Machine.

mike

6bee,

What advice would you give in getting more Extensor Action into the stroke?

Thanks!

B

Not more ... or less... just have.

The Three Pulls of 6-B-1-D –

1- The right hand/arm pulls the left arm into a take-away. The RFT.
2- The left arm pulls the right on the downswing. Slack remover.
3- The right arm stretches the pulling left arm, trying to straighten itself (right arm/elbow).

All three are important - I am still working to make sure that all three 'pulls' are in my swing every time.

These three Extensor Action pulls are similar to the way muscles contract and compress to produce power. It least in my sick mind- lol.

Extensor Action
 

How true are the followings

Extensor Action maintaining the radius
Extensor Action keeping the connection of the arm and body... the triangle

But now, what about automatic release... so the Extensor on the back swing and the down swing would be a passive force generated by the CF

Supporting Cast
 

Centrifugal Force does work to pull the Clubshaft in line with the Left Arm. In the process, it also stiffens it. However, this action does not replace -- nor should it obscure -- the active Extension of the Right Triceps.

6Bmike,

I couldn't agree with you more. The golf swing would be entirely too "narrow" and lack "structure" without extensor action. What a hell of a quote you have back there in your post. Awesome!:cool:

Narrowness
 

Like this? Right wrist cock, soft arms, and no extensior action! He cranks it up to the max, lets the air out of his arms, unwinds hard, and walks 350 yds to hit his wedge. You can't have your right elbow bent this much at the top using extensor action.

http://www.golfswing.com/proswings/daly.htm

Big John's Right Wrist -- Cocked Or Level?
 

Uh, MJ...I'm not so sure Big John Cocks his Right Wrist at the End of his Stroke. I saw an overhead view in a commercial photo a while back, and it looked to me like his Right Wrist remained Level. Like you, I had always assumed that it was Cocked! Maintaining that Level Wrist despite such a long Backstroke is why his Right Forearm (and Elbow) gets into that positively outrageous -- but geometrically correct -- 'flying' alignment at the Top.

Would somebody please find and post such an overhead? Let's check it out!

Pounding a square peg into a round hole.
 

There is NO WAY the club can point almost straight down to the ground like that at the End without softing the left arm AND cocking the right wrist even with a flying right elbow. His arms are soft at the End and the weight of the clubhead has cocked the right wrist.

Try it for yourself. I'm as flexible as anyone and the level right wrist prohibits his End club attitude no matter how high I fly the right elbow. In fact with a level right wrist, I can't even get the club to horizontal, much less past it.

Hey...I'm Easy!
 

Hmmm...Would you settle for a 'less than outrageously Cocked' Right Wrist? :D

Still would like to see the overhead photo -- or any other that would show clearly the Right Wrist Condition at the Top.

Jd
 

Nto the best but his right wrist looks bent.

John Daly
 

.................................................. ..............
There is a johndaly.com Click on there under photo gallery.
The picture of John with the ski cap... shows his right wrist position pretty well. He also extends the #3 Pressure Point finger unusually long down the shaft. The Right elbow gets into a Flying or in TGM language Push(I suppose) position.

That's cocked - the shaft is at almost a 90 deg angle to his right forearm.

Preach on...
 

Preach it Mike! Can I get a AMEN??!!

Big John
 

I'm not trying to downplay John's ability, but there aren't many that can have the ups and downs that this guy can have. He can shoot 62 one day and 82 the next. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone that carries their cigs rolled up in their sleeve, or any NASCAR/golf fans. But, John's not the poster child for a golf swing, non-smoking campaign, alcoholics anonymous, mental health day, or weight watchers.

Hahahah....cigs rolled up in sleeve....Nascar....classic.

For the record, I like John Daly....but that was still funny.

Oz,
I would say you are either a swinger or hitter - not both. Though I do know where you are going with it. Keep in mind, clubface orientation at the top, thrusting the right elbow, etc do not define hitting/swinging.

Lets say you drag load. You bend the shaft lengthwise - then maintain that til impact...if you feel like your thrusting your right elbow towards impact, it doesnt negate the fact that you drag loaded it and maintained it.

If you drag load - and do not manipulate CF, your shaft will lose it load and you will not compress the ball - particularly if you do it before the clubhead is outside the arc of the hands....

Just my take. Sometimes feel is not real....

[quote=YodasLuke]
But, John's not the poster child for alcoholics anonymous I am not the biggest Daly fan, but we have no idea of his past nor his demons, other then alcoholism. Personally, I think it took more courage for him to play golf while through withdrawal then practically anything I have ever seen.

Imagine your (or my) worst demons being played out on national tv. No thank you!

Personally, understanding what I understand, I think he is doing pretty good now. Alcoholism has killed more then have recovered - and it will always be that way.

Amen
 

AMEN !!



I just saw the post- 6b1ders stick together.