"The bump" to start downswing
 

I have been reading posts concerning drills and members ideas on the bump to start the downswing. My question is: if my hipa are turned 45 to 50 degrees to the right of the target (on the backswing) and then I start my downswing with a bump,does the bump go 45 to 50 degrees right of the target line or do I actually turn as I bump which would then square my hips to the target line??

Dan

Slide, Then Turn
 

Dan,

The 'bump' is a Hip Slide with a Delayed Turn. Its purpose is to Shift the Weight and tilt the Spine -- the Axis for the On Plane Downstroke Shoulder Turn. Prior to the Downstroke Hip Turn, the Slide should be parallel to the selected Delivery Line, i.e., the true Geometric Plane Line (Swingers and Hitters) or the Angle of Approach (Hitters only) [7-12].

Which came first the Chicken or the Egg?
 

Doc,


Is the Hip Slide an INDEPENDENT motion or is it a RESULTANT motion of the intent to move the Right Shoulder Down Plane?

Kinda like do you walk with your feet or do your feet walk because you lean your noggin forward?

Heckifeyeno.

B

Two Chickens And One Egg
 

Both the Hip and Shoulder Turns are the result of the intent to Drive the Hands Down Plane (toward the Ball).

Why do people in NC have flat foreheads?
 

Bucket executes a perfectly placed bent right wrist slap upon his FLAT VERTICAL forehead . . . .

And this is why you are the KungFu Master . . . Earth to Bucket . . . "It's hands-controlled pivot you freakin' Mo-ron."

Hip Slide
 

I have been puzzeled by the term clear the right hip. Is it the hip slide that clears the right hip?

Thanks
CalSr

Clearing the Right Hip
 

Cal,

The Delayed Turn clears the Right Hip prior to or during the Start Up. The Slide clears it from the Top.

I wouldn't mind adding another layer into this conversation by discussing the feet and the roles that the hip and foot action play in regards to the Pivot Train.

One of the reason why the Right Anchor, Delayed Hip Turn, Flat Left foot action should be employed because it is the ideal variation, is that if you have standard Knee, Hip action and Foot action - if the backstroke is not halted with the feet, people using this variation cannot use that same tension in the feet that halted the backstroke to launch the pivot train in the downstroke. When good golfers say they like to 'use the ground', but can't explain it, this is what they mean.

The hip action in the downstroke is very much a reaction to this. You cannot think - right, im going to slide here an inch or two and turn... The correct way is to use that tension in your feet per 7-17 to launch the pivot under your stationary head. 'Swinging from the feet' gives your stroke the maximum Swing radius.

Good post. Do you think you are "using" your feet or are you "feeling" the down-plane force of your hands and right shoulder going into the ground via your feet?

The swingers pivot drives and creates a pressure against acc#4 at its associated pressure point(#4). You launch the pivot from the tension in your feet, your pivot (power package transport) moves the hands - specifically monitored by the pressure points - to the aiming point....

Newton was not, to my knowledge, an AI but that is what he would have said - or something similar, involving forces (downward, in this case) generating equal and opposing (upward) reaction forces.

Positioning To Hammer the Ball Into the Ground
 

Mathew is right on here. In my own case, unless I consciously monitor the situation -- which I rarely do -- I am totally unaware of the degree of Hip Slide. However, at one time I worked pretty hard on that Component and still do emphasize its 'parallel to the Plane Line' motion when I practice my Lag Loading via Downstroke Waggles. And here, there is enough lateral motion to transfer the Weight to the left side as the Body begins to Pull the Arms and Hands toward their Impact Locations.

What I am very aware of during the Stroke is being in position -- Centered and perfectly Balanced -- so that when I Drag my 'Wet Mop' down from the Top, the natural swinging DOWN of the Arms will (1) automatically put my Hands well in front of the Ball before Impact, and (2) automatically cause a definite Forward Lean of the Clubshaft all the way through Impact and well into the Follow-Through. I feel as though I am literally hammering the Ball into the ground. And I continue this Down Plane Thrust until both Arms are straight. Obviously, with the longer Clubs the Ball is located nearer Low Point, so the Down element is less dramatic, but it is still there.

All this includes the distinct sensation of my Lower Body and Left Shoulder returning to their Impact Fix alignments. During Start Down and into the Downstroke, I have a very strong awareness that I have moved into a rock-solid position from which I can "drive the Ball into the ground, not into the air" (6-E-2). Not just once in a while, but time after time. In fact, the feeling is that I really can't do anything else! From the Top, all I have to do is swing Down and through the Ball (and Plane Line!) until both Arms are straight, all the time dragging my Wet Mop -- the Clubhead Lag and its Pressure in my Hands -- along behind me.

I have worked diligently on this -- achieving automatically and without effort the Flat Left Wrist and 'Impact Hands' -- since my 'return' to golf two years ago and am happy to report that I am hitting the Ball better now -- by far -- than at any other time in my life.

And that's a good thing. :)

Wow.
 

How good is this post? Amazing!

Enchiladas Verde, not to threadjack. But if one is to go to the Gallery of this here fine website, one will find some pictures of some decent players at Impact or Follow Through: Hogan, Nelson, Player, Buck, Mr. Kelley and a Lil' Green Man.

As you have so clearly stated above "the natural swinging DOWN of the Arms will (1) automatically put my Hands well in front of the Ball before Impact, and (2) automatically cause a definite Forward Lean of the Clubshaft all the way through Impact and well into the Follow-Through." Why are ball strikers of this superior quality in this "forward lean" position so DEEP into Follow-Through vs. some equally good players interms of resume who are more "in-line" at the same point in the Stroke?

Thanks for a super post.

Because they have very educated hands and no urge to flip.

Great answer from Yoda in differentiating Cause from Effect.

I have been practicing this concept the last couple of days after reading posts elsewhere and seeing my swing during my lesson with Lee. I think I'm hitting the ball much better now, but it's a vastly different feeling for me than before. I now swing with the image/feeling that I am stuck in concrete, which forces me to balance my weight 50-50. But then, after impact, I let everything carry me through. It's a much tighter swing, and I feel much more wound and compact. I have no feeling of swaying or purposefully shifting my weight.

with vandals post, i would tend to believe it is the GD version of the X factor without the bull, and i love it. The X factor theory has it all wrong...they think its physics powering the swing where in reality, it seems to be the geometry. any thoughts?

Physics is geometry, geometry is physics.

Their difference is perspective.

Time, space, and motion - they are connected. It is useful to categorize and describe, but one must not forget the relationships that exist define a 'whole'.

Learning to 'see' with each lens, new perspectives, can only be helpful in the long run.

The physics of the golf stroke is useless unless it is precisely aligned and thats why the golfing machine rocks so much :). Physics is of force and motion, so in essence physics is what powers the stroke whether it be pivot or muscular thrust, but the geometry aligns the physics. The geometry is of the circle and the physics is of rotation.

The X-factor concept is a half truth. The real concept is that every leading component puts a drag on the next to creat maximum pivot lag, explained by Homer Kelley and similiarly described by Ben Hogan in 5 lessons.

Where the x-factor is false is due to the idea of resisting the hip turn to 'coil more' when this simply isn't the case. You cannot have more than maximum pivot lag - all this serves to do is stop the leading component. Actually this effect can be very useful - ie you can preturn your hips to halt the backstroke at a designated point or use a right anchor and flat left variation to limit the hip turn....etc

Superb post.

G. O. L. F. (With Periods)
 

Absolutely right, Mathew. This is the essence of G.O.L.F. -- Geometrically Oriented Linear Force.

The Linear Force produced by the Angular (circular) Motion of the Golf Stroke is the Line of Compression. That Line is straight...not curved. It is the Principle of Golf (2-0).

Through Impact, this Linear Force is Geometrically Oriented -- that is, geometrically aligned -- according to the Geometry of the Circle (Clubhead Orbit) and the employed Hinge Action (Clubface Alignment).

A Force geometrically aligned and controlled is efficient.

The Force and its constraining Structure constitute Mechanics.

For the Golfer, Feel is the equivalent of Structure, and its foundation is Educated Hands.

So it is now...

So it will be always.

Form follows function?

This is function.

Big time.

I seem to be doing well on this thread, thanks guys :)

Should I try to minimize my hip turn at all?

In the delayed hip action which is 'the ideal'- the hips should lag the shoulders ... which basically means the hips are moved by the shoulder turn so from that perspective of preforming the purity of this principle yes, but by restraint no.... If you try to stop a lagging component, in this case the hip turn, it will stop the leading component, the shoulders - and all too often when this happens, the golfer tries to do something funky to falsely complete their backstroke....

Mathew,

Just want to ensure I understand the delayed hip action concept. I read 10-15-C to be a "preset" of the hip turn prior to start up, although it could also be accomplished by having the shoulders lead the hips on the backstroke. It would seem that for precision the pre-set approach would make it easier to control the length of the backstroke.

I have yet to try delayed hip action done as a pre-setting action, but plan to give it a go. I need to make sure I'm not mis-interpreting what Homer was saying in 10-15-C.


CG

The "bump" is the body reaction (the effect) to the pulling (or pushing) of the hands against the "lag" (the cause) driven by the pivot turn, a "hands-controlled pivot".

If you "bump" it (the cause) with the hip (instead of pulling by the hands), you get "pivot-controlled hands" (the effect).

delete this post

For your enjoyment: Snapping the "Kinetic Chain". :laughing9

Click on the Picture.



Where's the Bump? :confused1

Swinging a club while sitting on a chair one can only swing on the Turned Shoulder Plane. :)

Interesting theory Daryl - If you turn the club upside down - no hip clearance is required - I'll try it.

And if you get the plane flat enough in relation to the body BY lowering the hip and shoulder locations i.e. sitting down - then you effectively take the right hip out of the right elbow's way. This is probably the only way to get hip clearance if you haven't evolved to upright biped movement. For a video of someone with these ape like features please see Bucket in the Video Gallery. :monky:

If I had an "I can't believe this is happening" moment, then it would be concerning the Turned Shoulder Plane.

The guy in the video, sitting on a chair, is swinging on the "Turned Shoulder Plane", Circle Path Delivery with/and No Hip Bump.

I got your ape like feature buddy . . . .

Daryl, I wondered what you look like!
 

It was hard to imagine such a font of TGM info. without a highly evolved appearance. BTW thanks for the 41 this afternoon! Getting my back hip back allowed me all day to "crapsmack" the ball.

Patrick

41? don't tell anyone I helped you. :laughing9