modified plane board
 

I have been considering building a plane board. I have began to wonder if I should modify it for TGM. From what I can tell, the semi-circular part cut of the middle to allow for the address position usually has a radius of about 30 inches, leaving 18 inches on each side for the club head and part of the shaft to rest upon. I'm wondering if I should reduce this radius to just enough to allow me to take an address postition. My thinking is that this would allow me to not only rest the clubhead and a small portion of the shaft on the board, but the entire shaft and even my right fore arm and elbow. From there I could be sure that I am going up plane and back down plane. Comments or suggestions?

I have been thinking about doing the same thing. Anybody have any ideas on how to build one?

I use a 1" by 12" plank 3 ft long. I prop it up so it is act the correct angle to the shaft using several dumbells. Portable and easy to change the shaft angle. Works perfect for putting and chipping. Master the right forearm takeaway and choose you hinge method.

Here is what I had in mind, before modifications. Click on pic for enlargement.

The final product. (with fancy legs) This shouldn't be that hard to build.

Heat:

What are the legs in the pic made out of?? Almost look like big ole plastic fan blades...

FL-John

John,

This is just a picture I have from somewhere. I haven't built one yet. In the original pic, the legs appear to just be plywood (OSB) like the face. I wouldn't recommend building one like that because the legs wouldn't be able to fold up. You would need quite a bit of space to store it. I plan on using 2 x 4 legs on hinges like the first plan. This will enable me to fold it almost flat and slide it somewhere for storage.

I see a couple plane board built from using the foam panels they use on house. Light weight and easy to transport. They used 1x2 for legs.


I read one poster on another forum talking about the full size plane board which allows for the right forearm trace/plane etc. He stated the difference between the half and full size was no comparison.

Problem with a big one is storing and moving around.

If you want to take it to the driving range, you probably don't want to have to take flat bed truck with a fork lift (if you build it out plywood). :lol:

Great Imaging and Visual Directions for construction of a Plane Board....After constructing several plane boards, both with wood and plastic....the wood is excellent especially if painted with an exterior paint or weather proofing....The Plane board that you have constructed demonstrates a "half of a Plane board which works great for most and is fairly easy to transport...As a matter of fact at Pine Needles, we used Bag stands rotated around backwards as supports rather than building leg supports...however, if you want to have a "cool" plane board go for it all....with the legs and the hinges...a "Full Monty". A full size plane board... just double the face of the plane and then use 8 ft 2x4's to frame it and as support legs to hold it up ....I recommend Doubling the frame for a full size due to eay warping of the face of the plane. I would recommend a Full size for a permanent location.

$.02,

Annikan

If you want to make a full plane board that is portable, maybe you could cut another sheet of plywood like the bottom half. Then attach the two sheets with door hinges that allow you to fold the plane board in half.

What is the angle?
 

How do you determine what angle to put the plane on? Would it be the same for every golfer?
One of you mentioned building a full size plane board. Does the clubhead or shaft stay on this plane throughout the swing?
Here's a question I asked in the Drills and Training aids thread. I have a SAM 2000 swing trainer that is a large circle of PVC pipe mounted on a frame. I didn't like it when I first tried it for full swings. I felt too vertical at the top.
Would that be good for use as, or substitution for a plane board?

Steve

Annikan,

I just realized what you were talking about. I guess I've never seen a full plane board. When you said half, I just assumed you were talking about the backswing 1/2. I now assume that you are talking about extending it up, so as to have a plane board all the way to the top of the backswing. That would be way cool. I'll have to think about this.

The problem with all this is that the shaft (or more exactly the sweetspot line) doesn't move on the same plane in the BS and DS in any effective golf swing I've ever seen. In fact on the BS, the shaft traces out a curved surface. A look at the latest edition of Golf Magazine's sequence of Ken Perry will show you that even in the some DOWNSWINGS, the shaft traces a curved surface.

Better to put lasers out the butt of the shaft and pointing from #3 PP to the plane line just in front of the leading edge of the clubface. This, at least, allows a diferent "plane" for the BS than the DS.

The Heat,
"Full" Plane boards are great for a reference, ...but remember the Plane Angle Shifts(rotates up and down from its baseline). It's greatest use ...The Reference or Guide Line for all of our components...Why?...2-F Every component must comply....

Another $.02 that makes $.04

Annikan

Useful for the right elbow to trace - back and through.

Your observation would seem to be accurate if the reference point is the PGA Tour. However, the variation selected for component 6/7 in 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 and the accompanying photos in 10-13-B,D conveys to me the intent of a single plane. This is an area I continue to struggle with. I had though the answer might be with the sweet spot but that is not clear. I will continue to lister!

DRW

Huh?...How does the above fit with 2-F's:

"All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumfrence of the stroke-in every direction. The full length of the Club shaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane--Waggle to Follow-through."

...now that "SAM 2000" thing seems to go with the above perfectly as well as the geometry of the circle...

-hcw

ok, i see what you're saying...but then what is "inflexible"?

-hcw

ps-i know what inlexible means :), my question is what about the Inclined Plane is inflexible?

Plane lasers work better imo...plus they are far more conveinant:

smaller and more portable
easier to adjust to each club
harder to practice INCORRECTLY with

Is this what you mean, that the club shifts to a steeper plane angle based upon the same plane line? Notice in the pic that the right elbow is still on the plane. I am having trouble reconciling this with the idea of down and then down and out vs. down along the plane.

It seems to me that the right elbow stays on plane, and the club and right forearm get back on plane by the extensor action putting them there. I am not sure how this squares with PP3 going straight back to the ball. I think I need some fog cleared here for sure.

This is why I wanted to build the plane board. To keep my right elbow on plane at the top, and to make sure I'm getting right back to the plane. But what should the first move from the top be? I guess what I'm really struggling with is the concept of keeping the right forearm on plane, and if it does go to steeper plane angle the concept of getting it back on the original plane.

Per Homer,
"The Right Forearm indicates Plane Angle and must stay on Plane in the backstroke then down Plane either on "ARC" or "ANGLE" of Approach. The MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM dictates that the forearm traces the plane during the backstroke then traces the delivery line and visually parallel to the approach angle on the downstroke. There is also a "feel" of the right forearm "pick up" on the backstroke with extensor action. The Right Forearm cannot become on Plane until the Right Elbow becomes on Plane. The minute the right elbow gets off plane the forearm also leaves the plane. The left arm is almost useless except as accumulator #4 in pivot strokes. The release comes as the left arm leaves the chest.

Ball position is relative to the Plane and determines the actual Angle of Approach of the clubhead. Farther back for flatter, forward for upright. Ball position is also dependent on the design of the golf club and the individual. "

Yo can view your plane by setting a mirror to the rear. Use a dowel and the right foream pickup.

Lay something down on the ground as a straight plane line and then just trace it and "look look look" to make sure you're on plane.

To be honest, just trace the line going back and trace it coming down and look in a mirror and make sure your right forearm is on plane. Simple as that, thats what i do and i hit the ball pretty well :)

Remember!

"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other" (1-L-6).

"Changing the Plane Angle has no effect on the Plane Line" 1-L-18.

Henning

rwh~

7-6 and 7-7 support your post, even acknowledging that it is not always advisable to adhere to a single inclined plane classification throughout the stroke. However, does not the "shift" bring with it the hazards Mr. Kelley cautions about and their consequences? And, is one of those consequences not satisfying the desirable shoulder/hand relationship in the downstroke of 7-13 as illustrated in the stroke clip? Or, is it satisfied?

DRW

Elbow Plane Fog Clearing
 

Heat,

There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]

Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.

In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).

So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...

There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow.

ok, then how does staying flat fit in with what yoda just said:

"In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane."

...ie i can't visualize how it can "gradually Shift" AND stay flat...abrublty shift maybe...i'm not saying one can't swing this way, just that i can't see how it can be on a "flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane"...but i'll incubate a bit more...

-hcw

Re: Elbow Plane Fog Clearing
 

Heat,

There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]

Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.

In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).

So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...

There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow. [/quote]
__________________________________________________ ___________

Yoda,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have been almost pulling my hair out trying to understand this afternoon, and I really don't have that much hair to spare. :wink:

One final question to completely clear the fog. Should there be a deliberate effort to get the hands and sweetspot back down to the elbow plane? I think understanding this moment of transition may be a real help for me. If there is no concerted effort to do this, can you elaborate on a feel or key?
Thanks again.

JN

I just had an idea, so I went and checked it with a mirror. At the top of my backswing, the slight hip bump causes my hands to drop, almost back on plane. This almost goes almost unnoticed in my swing, but for me at least clears up the idea of how it can feel like I'm going straight back to the ball from the top.

On the BS, when the shaft moves continuously through space from the elbow plane to the turned shoulder plane it traces a curved surface - a section of a truncated cone.

Gettin' Down With TGM
 

You could consciously return to the Elbow Plane, and if you do, you will have executed the Double Shift Variation (10-7-C). That is, from Elbow Plane to Turned Shoulder Plane and back again to Elbow Plane. This would mandate an Angled Line Delivery Path of the Hands (10-23-B or D).

However, the easiest thing to do would be to stay with the Single Shift (10-7-B) and simply execute a Straight Line Delivery Path (either 10-23-A or C) down the Turned Shoulder Plane. To do this:

1. Mentally construct a Straight Line (of Thrust) from the Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point to the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point).

2. Load the Lag with your Start Down Pivot Motion without disturbing your Hands and their On Plane Location. In other words, Start Down with your Hip Action (Standard or Delayed per 10-15-A or C) but leave your Hands (and the Club) at The Top. Failure to make this move is where the great majority of potentially good golfers go bad.

3. Finally, take your Hands and their Loaded Lag Pressure directly down this Straight Line Delivery Path toward the Ball or Aiming Point (per 6-E-2) in preparation for the selected Release Trigger. In so doing, you automatically will be Tracing the Straight Line Baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane.

Incidentally, there is an error in the Delivery Path Component Variation (10-23) of the Swinger's Drag Loading Basic Pattern (12-2-0). If you haven't already done so, correct 10-23-C to read Top Arc and Straight Line (and not simply Straight Line).

rwh,
i see what you're saying and i see what yoda was talking about plane shifts from 10-7...i think where i was "stuck" is the 2-F part of (my bold) "...a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumfrence of the stroke-in every direction. The full length of the Club shaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane--Waggle to Follow-through."...just couldn't get by the idea of a SINGLE inclined plane...thanks!

-hcw

thanks mj...i had come come to the same conclusion, glad to see i'm not alone...

-hcw

Re: Gettin' Down With TGM
 

Yoda~

The model in the stroke sequence included here demonstrates a shoulder turn almost perpendicular to the spine which would fit the 10-13-C Rotated shoulder turn classification. If this assessment is accurate an option other than the 10-13-D On Plane downstroke from a TSP is suggested. Does that option offer a benefit?

BTW, I was viewing 4 and 5 to be on the downstroke and the impact frame missing so the calibration was helpful.


DRW

rwh~

Although I wasn't reading your post as advocating in favor of a shift, the tour swings and the need to acknowledge Mr. Kelley's acceptance of shifts even if not preferred can cometimes result in the zero shift advantages being overlooked. My view is that the overall plane subject may be the most difficult for the new student to grasp even with extensive book study and help from the more experienced as yourself. I want to be confident in this area but am not and tend to struggle in asking the "right" questions. Thanks for your help.

DRW

Re: Elbow Plane Fog Clearing
 

[quote]
I understand that it doesn't need to be the case, but I am still unclear on why it is not useful to see the 'tip' of the right elbow as moving back and through on 'its' plane - effectively the angle of the right forearm/shaft at address, but actually very slightly steeper. This is one way the 'fanning' action can be felt - feeling the right forearm 'pivot point' as the tip of the right elbow, something that the figure 8 strap can show you. IMO it is a key way to feel the 'entire right forearm' feel through impact.


Thanks - EZ

figure 8 strap?

As i se it is this correct, pic 1 the hands start shaft plane, pic2 the hands have now moved onto elbow plane with the shaft parallel to the original shaft plane, pic3 at the top , the hands have moved to turned shoulder plane, pic 4 the hands move down on the inclineplane, on the turned shoulder plane with the elbow and right forearm tracing the elbow plane or parallel to this plane ? ,pic 5 release point the hands have now returned to elbow plane? and studying tour players , the shaft at impact is between elbow plane and shaft plane or is it between turned shoulder plane elbow plane or shafts plane? at impact. also the shifts single double etc occur in the backstroke, top, start down,down stroke release, impact?