Torque and Power in the Golf Swing
 

http://www.arthurdevany.com/archives..._and_powe.html

Pretty good read.

Sorry, I can't get the link to work. :(

I got it! :)

Shoulders
 

Interesting!

TGM teachers usually recommend (often recommend) the RIGHT SHOULDER AS BEING THE SHOULDER THAT INITIATES THINGS ON THE DOWNSWING, NOT THE LEFT. The Right Shoulder, of course, must move properly, and on plane.

The PHYSICS part of golf is interesting, and can get tricky, especially when there are some FEEL vs. REAL factors.

Other comments?

Jorgensen Reminder
 

All,

This is just a reminder for everyone. Jorgensen's book is based on a model of the golf swing that he created which specifically fit a PGA pro in the 70s when the research was done. It is not a model that would fit every swing or even the most efficient, powerful, or accurate swing (it might or might not). He also does not divulge the pro he used in his work.

That being said, the physics is sound within the assumptions provided. Since PGA touring pros tend to have pretty good swings (slight humor here) and do most things correctly, general conclusions can be drawn somewhat from Jorgenson's work, but there still might be some ambiguous or misleading conclusions as well. I have never read the other paper referenced in the link and so cannot provide any insight into it.

Hi Lagster, i always thought it was just the intention of driving the right shoulder down plane but it didn't actually move first (at least for a swinger anyway), but the movement was initiated in the feet and hips. Seems like to me that his talk of "pulling with the left shoulder" is actually very TGMish cause is sounds like he's just describing #pp4.

The "pull" is from the Pivot Train that starts at base of the lower left limb aka the foot, then the shin, the thigh, the pelvis, etc..."pulling" from the Pivot is the result of sequential and segmental motion ....there is an acceleration of the segments and braking of the segments thus causing a built up of torques and the creation of angular momentum....Thus the myth of hitting into a frim left side..the firm left side feeling is the summation of torques created by the segments of the left side "blocking" much like that of a pitcher or quarterback who strides and then performes a sequential motion of the joints and segments to throw...this is the swingers transfer of momentum...Certain things are in motion and other things are stabilizing....

The Hammer Thrower is a great example of Sequential Motion

The Shot Putter is a great example of Simultaneous Motion...

Field Hockey is the closest I've seen to golf...

You can get more players to get the right shoulder on plane by telling them to move their left shoulder up/back then telling them to get the right shoulder down plane.

That is an interesting article.

Using that article one can certainly explain the why and how some golfers can hit from their knees or sitting on a chair just about as far as they hit when standing on thier two feet.

When Annika won the Women's US Open, in one of the post interviews she was talking about smoothing out her body to get her swing back on track.

Ground
 

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Technically, you are correct that the first movements in the downswing are from the ground(feet). When talking about the role of the SHOULDERS, however, TGM rarely even mentions the left shoulder. Mr. Yoda has written many, many times about the role of the RIGHT SHOULDER, and how it's proper on plane motion accelerates the swinger's left arm.

Now, if a player likes to FEEL the left shoulder moving up and back instead of monitoring the RIGHT SHOULDER moving down towards the ball, and gets good results, it's OK.

Annikan's post here about sequencing etc., by the way, is very interesting.

Jack's thoughts
 

I’m a left-sided golfer, but I never hesitate to think in right-sided terms if my left-sided thoughts aren’t working.
For example, if I can’t get the correct hip turn going back by thinking “turn the Left hip”, I’ll think “pull the right hip out of the way”. The same sort of thing often applies with the shoulders on the forward swing. My preferred thought is “move the left shoulder up and the left hip around.” But if that doesn’t seem to be working, I’ll try "move the right shoulder down and the right hip around.”
So long as the desired effect is achieved, I don’t think it matters at all which side you think about. In fact, it’s probably good to switch patterns occasionally, for the sake of striking a balance. Thinking one side or the other all the time can easily lead to exaggeration of a particular move.
Jack Nicklaus 1974

A swinger who fails to turn well can get great benefits by thinking of "hitting the ball with the back of the left shoulder" - as if you were breaking down a door with your left shoulder. A very good key to complete your backswing, a move which can overcome some errors in the backswing and allow for a proper on plane downswing. IMO - swinger - back of left shoulder - hitter - front of right shoulder.

James,

That is a sure fire recipe for round housing.

The left shoulder should not take any active part in the downswing and must only be left to respond to the dictates of its right sided cousin. If "righty" goes down and out then "lefty" has no where else to go other than up and in. Not so the other way round though!:naughty:

I think it works.

Esp. considering you pull from the left side.

Birdie,

I can see where you are coming from but considering that the left shoulder/arm, et al, are never on plane, but the right forearm, at impact, and the right shoulder, coming down plane into impact, must be, then the focus should be on them and not on an inactive, off plane, left shoulder.

Any downswing precipitated, and governed, by the left shoulder has to have an unacceptable potential for undesirable consequences.

I know what you're saying....in that the right shoulder is what you should be monitoring alignment wise.....but I think there something not right about actually actively moving it downplane in the downswing.....that's just me though I guess.

I understand there are some people who like to do this....I think Jim has said it works for him.

Ya you'd prolly be better off monitoring the hands a lot of the time....I think this is a doable thing tho. (without disasterous consequences or w/e)