Mchatton DVD
 

Whilst i don't wish to promote other TGM instructors on this site i was keen to have the opinion of others on a something i have watched in the Greg McHatton DVD and whether it is worthwhile trying to achieve. The section i am refering to is when he delivers/throws the butt end of the club into the ground where the ball would normally be positioned. He then demonstrated what 90 percent of us do if we try it that is the club goes hurtling off behind us club head first into the ground. Having tried it i found that yep i am one of the 90 percent who does this. I take this as being important as the guy is a GSED and obviously knows what he is talking about. From what i am led to believe that if this is a true pivot controlled hands and arms swing then you can do it as he demonstrated. Should you be able to achieve it if you are a hands controlled pivot player?

I have practised it for a while. Is it something i should continue to try and achieve.

Would value your opinions.

Watch the dowel_wedges video in the gallery. It's in the Lynn Blake section.

Is this drill done with both hands on the club, or the right or left hand individually?

Greg I'm sure knows the Alignments of his hands throughout the swing.

The Pivot just transports them.

I like this kind of swing (a lot) personally.

Questions
 

Quote#1
"I take this as being important as the guy is a GSED and obviously knows what he is talking about."

I've never met Greg McHatton- basically I know nothing about the guy- could be the greatest most knowledgable teacher in the world- could be the worst- Again, I have no idea. But that's really irrelevant to the quote above- you need to make judgements based on the information not the 'designation"- probably no different than any other field in the world. Specifically in the Golfing Machine world- having a GSED doesn't mean the person "obviously knows what they are talking about". Some may - Some may not- but you need to make that decision based on the information you are given- not the "designation".

In regards to throwing the butt end of the shaft into the ball, If I understand you correctly, my guess would be that this obviously is in the context of creating solutions for those that have throwaway- or release the club too early. It may have some useful applications in correcting those problems. However, I would say that there probably is no where in a golf swing where you could let go of the club and the shaft would arrow into the ball on the ground- obviously there could be special circumstances or unigue swings but in general- you're not going to see that happen. Anotherwords, it's not some principle that is true in every swing. That said it doesn't mean that in the context of his DVD via feel or in a general way he might not be describing something that could be helpful for someone i.e. you should be able to do it if you tried- not that that's what or how the actual swing should feel or look.

Finally, If (and that's a big if) I am understanding you properly- then pivot controlled hands or hand controlled pivot would have no difference - no impact on what you are describing.

Cert Means Nothing?
 

MikeO,

Now that scares me a tad. Do you really mean that you can attain a GSED and possibly not know what you're talking about TGM wise?

Say it aint so.

CG

Mike is spot on with regards to certs...

Now on the other hand, I have visited with Gregg, spent some time hitting balls with him, breakfast etc and spoke to him a fair bit over the phone - and if there is one thing about him, he knows his TGM and his hands are educated.

However, as with all other forms of instruction (computer science, medical science, theology etc...) I would always check to see whether what I am hearing is factually valid.

Hint: Even though a person says he is using Pivot Controlled Hands, they may not be doing so in reality.

Those drills that were described before simply is Gregg teaching his students to accelerate the club lengthwise or longitudinally, i.e. Drag Loading per 10-19-C.

Arrowing the ball with the butt end of the club is something that Gregg came up with to teach the student Aiming Point per 6-E-2, Drag Loading per 10-19-C and a Straight Line Delivery Path per 10-23-A.

Delivery Path (Hands and Thrust) Versus Delivery Lines (Clubhead)
 

I have not seen the Greg McHatton video and therefore cannot speak to the referenced drill.

However, my own Gallery 'live lesson' demo (where I throw the 'javelin' at the Ball) demonstrates how to establish the precise Down Plane Delivery Path of the Hands -- the Line of Thrust from the Top to the Aiming Point.

The Clubshaft and the Clubhead have their own Inclined Plane of Motion. Both are controlled by the selected Delivery Line. That is, the player Traces the Geometric Plane Line or Covers either of its Visual Equivalents, the Angle of Approach (Hitting) or the Arc of Approach (Swinging).

Certification
 

Compda,

Spot On??? I have to admit you're losing me here (as well as is Mike O). Why in the hell do certifications exist to begin with? Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications? Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials? If the title GSED means nothing... then the cert process is messed up. The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM. I always viewed the TGM certification as a "stamp of approval" of sorts (unlike the "PGA Member" title) when it comes to teaching. From what I understand about TGM and the testing... I find it hard to believe you could get a certification (particularly a GSED) without knowing what you're doing.

I'm not saying you can't question the teacher. But at some point the student has to trust the teacher... and the process the teacher used to attain his credentials.

I could be wrong. Sure hope I'm not.

CG

Consumer Beacons
 

Billions of dollars are spent each year on branding. To the extent that branding leads consumers to their own best interests, that money has done its job -- for company and consumer alike. But...

If quality, competition or pricing cause that brand to become suspect, then those billions are lost.

As they should be.

In the end, the marketplace rules.

Thanks for you comments i was only interested in that particular example of what McHatton was doing i.e delivering the butt end to aiming point. Which as Yoda has pointed out is exactly as he demonstrates with the javelin throw. Many thanks.

need to learn how to highlight these quotes also.:eyes:

Caveat Emptor
 

Just as a follow-up to what Lynn has said...

In post #25 of this thread Lynn mentions that certification is the beginning...[my paraphrase].

It seems that getting certified now is no arduous task - with all due respect to the AIs and instructors on this forum. The arduous task really is continuing one's education.

I have seen and heard from the mouths of AIs, erroneous interpretations of TGM, amongst them, GSEDs.

- Rhythm is Tempo.
- Impact Hand location is Aiming Point because that is where you aim your hands to.
- Use your pivot to hit the ball.
- Don't use your hands.

That an instructor is PGA or GSED or whatever their cert says does not make whatever they say valid. On the other hand, a golfer may not have a cert, but be able to teach correct mechanics etc - that is the guy I want to see.

For a clarification of information by authority, please read Science and G.O.L.F

As with buying any service...buyer beware.

Haven't heard anyone say those things (in those exact words)...but I agree that they are not the same thing.

Personally I like this one. I don't care if it is Pivot Controlled Hands....although I don't think it is. I always know what may hands are doing.....in every shot.....consciously ("programming" b4 the actual shot) and now instinctively.

Myself, it feels more natural to me to use my pivot to take the club back (and I know the r. forearm helps) and pull it down....you could say that my focus is on my left shoulder throughout.

That's me tho I would never tell Freddie Couples to do it differently.

"Don't move your hands with your hands"....?

"The hands JUST hold on"....? (although they also monitor alignments)

?

Certification
 

"Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications?"
When it's my life- ABSOLUTELY! Remember, we're not questioning the certificate- it is what it is- we're questioning the skill level

"Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials?"
If you are majoring in Physics and you want the best- ABSOLUTELY! But we are not questioning the credentials- they are what they are- it's the skill level of first knowing, then the ability to communicate so that the student gets it, then does the physics teacher have the ability to motivate?, make it interesting?- but the knowledge is first

"The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM."
Well, at first glance it's tough to argue with this comment- but when you look at it in relation to picking an auto mechanic- it allows you to cut to the bone- Anotherwords, you don't necessarily need expertise and know an engine inside out to ask or determine if someone is good in their field or not- and it doesn't really take alot of time- you don't need to read the automechanics manual before you go out and pick a mechanic. Can you make a mistake based on your limited knowledge - ABSOLUTELY! And what do you do if that happens- LEARN- and make a better decision next time!



I didn't say that the certification meant nothing. I just was trying to say as Compda and Lynn pointed out- that buyer beware in regards to any expertise in the marketplace. There are bad doctors. I think all mechanics that work on your car have some certification that they have passed. That said - There are lousy mechanics. There are great mechanics with lousy personal skills. There are great mechanics who lie. If all the mechanics in your area have the same certification- are you going to go to any of them? If you do are they all going to give you the same results and service? Don't all the people that cut your hair have some kind of certification or license- does that mean that you walk in to whoever -- to get your haircut- or when they cut it bad that you scream - "How can you have a license to cut hair!"

Yes, at some point the student should trust the teacher- after the teacher has proved himself. You don't have to trust the process the teacher used to get his credentials- in any field to me the credentials just says that this person took some training and "may" know what they are talking about or may give good advice.

I like that Mikey...:)

Buyer Beware
 

Certainly "buyer beware" applies to all things purchased these days, be it a golf lesson or a car. And I'm not saying that certifications alone determine one's level of expertise. However, there is a certain level of pragmatism/trust that has to be utilized, and unfortunately sometimes you do make the wrong choice and you make a change. (My car has to go to the dealer for maintenance to keep the warranty in effect. I have no idea which mechanic is going to do the work, I simply know that the ones that work there are certified so I have to assume they know what they're doing. If they screw it up, then I probably still have to use them to fix it, but do it enough times and I'm going to make a different decision when my car is out of warranty). Cert processes vary in their "rigor", so some are better indicators of the individuals probable expertise than others. Compda - I can't speak to the TGM certification process as I don't know what it is. But I have to believe it's far beyond the PGA process.

As many golf lessons as I've had over the years, and as much as I've "studied" the golf swing, I guess that I've come to realize that the TGM approach is the "real deal". This is a result of making a concerted effort to understand the book over the last few years. I certainly don't have it all down yet, but thanks to this forum (and posters like Mike O and Compda) I have a handle on many of the basics.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate to see any instructor who's attained a GSED or to recommend "the masses" to see a TGM based/certified teacher. I say that because the "average golfer" normally doesn't know where to begin when it comes to instruction and often ends up getting lessons from someone who has little real understanding of the golf swing and why it works the way it works. These teachers simply perpetuate the students' "blind struggle". There are certainly some great teachers who have never opened the yellow book, and there are probably some bad ones who are TGM certified, but if I had to start my golf "career" over I'd have tracked down a "TGM guy" for help.

CG

The ideas expressed by gregg in that dvd are discussed fully by Homer --- in edition #2 --- don't have edition # 2 in front of me but
Homer basically called it --- swinging the butt of the club at the ball and letting an auto release switch the club end over end

Every GSED i have met, and I have met them all but 5 ---- Were all deserving of their designation!!!

New Hand On Deck
 

Welcome aboard, sensicore, and thanks for this first post. Keep'em coming! :salut:

McHatton DVD
 

Amen! Senicore :salut: Gregg does teach a Centrifigal Force golf swing that is his pattern AUTOMATIC release. To all of you he was taught by the man him self. (HK)