Clearing the Right Hip
 

Are there any explicit instructions on this action in TGM? I reviewed chapter 7 and the index and came up empty. My specific question is whether the right hip is cleared by the right forearm pickup or is an independent move done simultaneuosly with the rfp. 7-17 refers to the heels being pulled off the ground, presumably by the pivot. Is the right hip pulled or does it move independently?

Pivot
 

You must train your pivot to move correctly. Once it learns what to do you will not have to think about it, unless it is getting in way and causing you problems.

Train it then you forget about it.

Your mind will be more in your hands and the right forearm, not in your right hip.

The hips and arms/shoulders move independently - "HULA HULA".

The pivot uses both the Shoulders and the Hips. Each move independently from each other in a coordinated, timed, sequence.


This is where the Hands train the pivot so there is no ‘roundhousing’ of the Hands around the right hip. The pivot should allow the Hands to go directly to the ball or aiming point. You can pre-set the right hip at address or use a delayed Hip action on the up stroke. You need to start the downstroke with a hip action that lead the shoulders, then the arms and Hands along its Delivery Path.

Some say the right hip is pulled by the rotation of the left hip. Others say fire the right hip- a thrust or a pop at impact. The right hip cannot remain still if the left is turning and the right hip can still fire as it turns. A Swinger may feel more pull and a Hitter will feel the thrust or push.

As for the feet. Homer didn’t want you to lift the right foot as an action on to itself. The right foot should lift because of the stroke’s momentum forward and only as much as that allows. There is no independent right foot lifting.

Pre-set?
 

How to you pre-set the right hip at address?

You just turn it the amount you want . . . so basically you are making your backstroke hip turn before you actually make the backstroke. You can turn it the full amount or how much you like. Doing this actually shortens your arm swing and get the hip out of the way so you don't have to go around it in your 3 dimensional backstroke (back up and in) . . . just like the downstroke . . . get it out of the way so you can go (down and out).

As bucket posted, you can turn the hip as if you are sitting on your back right pocket. That leaves the Stance Line parallel to the Target and Plane Line.

You can also:
Set up in a closed stance to your target line, 10-5-E (??). This set up is still a variation of a delayed Hip Action and allows for a clear path for the right elbow and put the Right Shoulder On Plane. Can be for Swinger or Hitter. The Plane line will be slightly closed and tracing it will prevent the right elbow to roundhouse the right hip. This has to be worked out on the lesson tee.
Practice Start Down waggles- a hip action- and you will have a well trained pivot motion. A well trained hip action as part of the pivot will never have the Hands veer off its Delivery Path.
Homer had a bit of a phobia about the right hip being in the way but it doesn’t take much too disturb the Delivery of the Hands and the Right Elbow needs open space.

I was told that Mr. Kelley assumed the modern (or future in his case) golf swing would start with a pre-set hip

Video
 

I once saw an old video of Mr. Kelley teaching a few guys... and they were working on this pre-turned right hip, on the backswing. Tom Tomasello used to teach this sometimes, as well a Peter Croker. They would kind of blend it in there, where it was not as obvious. With Mr. Kelley's guys on this film, you could clearly see this.

The book does, of course, give options on the backswing, for the hips... Slide Turn, Delayed Hip Action, etc..

My specific question is whether the right hip is cleared by the right forearm pickup..... As long as you specify - CORRECT (correct being on your chosen plane) right forearm pickup, the answer is YES, YES, and more YES. That is the hand controlled pivot. Note the word controlled. Not just that the hands are imprortant, but they actually control or dictate (per 5-0). If you are determined to trace your chosen plane line, the right hip simply must clear - clear meaning move or get out the way. Dictation by the hands means a perfect pivot - no more or less movement for your machine (that must remain stable) than necessary.

If you wanted to pre clear the right hip, you could trace the plane line (right forearm pickup) in a "practice" right forearm pickup and just keep the hip in the cleared position.

Nice post and description . . . how about a similar explanation on the Downstroke?

Dear Lagster,

As with Homer's "hands controlled pivot", it is a correct "pushing" from the pressure points in the hands that controls the "hip action" and causes the right arm to clear the right hip without interference on the way down and also controls the hands path on the backswing so that the pivot action does not "pull' the club too much off path to the inside.

I find the "hands controlled pivot more effective to manage for most golfers.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Peter :happy3:

Peter Croker
 

///////////////////////////////////////////

Good to hear from you Peter!

Pushing... is usually associated with Hitting in TGM, as you know. Would you say your teaching is a Hitting Procedure? I attended one of your seminars in Orlando in around 1993 or '94. I did very well with it for a while, but started to get too sweepish eventually.

...This man can really strike the ball well... if any of you don't already know. I believe he finished 2nd or so in the Australian P.G.A. one year.

Two Ships Passing
 

Peter and I got together in the Atlanta Airport earlier this year. I was headed out west for our LBG Academy at Las Vegas Paiute Golf Resort and he was headed down south to Miami for a cruise with his daughter. Knowing that our paths were crossing, we made this meeting happen 'on purpose.'

We had a couple of hours together -- enough to get to know one another and still talk a lot of golf -- and determined that there should be more to come.

His continent or mine...

We will see what the 'morrow brings!

:)

Question about pre cleared hip.
 

Would a pre hip bump (1-2" left hip bump at address) with a centered head be an acceptable option for pre clearing the right hip? I've been fooling around with it at my practice net with good results. Feels a little stack and tiltish. Seems impossible to hit fat.

Very, very acceptable.

Now, could you practice that 10,000 times so that you'll never ever forget it?

Yes.

Start Today.

Awesome Daryl. Thank you so much!!
I'll get started right away. I'm at about 150 swings so I just have around 9850 more to go...

Daryl is the man, and certainly doesn't need my approval. :salut:

I feel compelled to add that his answer was perfect. I was lucky enough to spend a day with YODA this summer, and we worked on that very thing. You may have a little hip bump, in fact YODA recommends it for hitters, and still maintain hands controlled pivot.

:golf:

Kevin

Do you mean you are pre setting or turning the right hip with an additional sliding of the hips towards the target? Or just the slide without the turn back? Yoda does the latter with mid irons anyways. If my memory serves me correctly he described it as being a 10-9-C Half and Half Address Position where the Body is in its Impact position and the Hands are in their Standard Address position and condition (bent right , flat left). Something he has added to my game as well. From there I personally clear the right hip prior to startup, actively, early, forcefully.

Another thing on right hip clearing from Yoda. You have to do it twice! You turn the right hip back prior to or during Startup, then in Startdown you need to Slide the hips towards the target with a Delayed Hip turn to clear even more room for the Right Elbow. 10-14-B SLIDE HIP TURN. There are Trigger Delay advantages to this too as the Right Elbow not only has an inside path to the ball but can also now be pulled by the Pivot or Shoulders into a deep position near or in front of the ball prior to any elbow unbending.

Per 12-3-0, point 13, the last point in Section 3 Adjusted Address. "Forward Press-Clear Right Hip". RFT isnt until point 17 in Section 4 Startup. Point 24, the last point of Section 6 The Top and prior to Section 7 Startdown reads "Clear Right Hip". So its in there twice and they are slightly different to my understanding.

I hope Yoda corrects me if I have misrepresented any of his teachings.

I am talking about taking my address with a 1-2" hip bump and centered head. So this would be something I would do in my setup.

That alone would not be a cleared right hip to my mind. But you can/should turn the right hip back from there quite nicely to get er done. Either prior to or during Startup.

Thanks O.B. It's a small adjustment but it seems to eliminate a lot of my pivot issues (body sway and head movement).

Research "Hula Hula" for the relationship between Hip movement and a steady head. Im thinking that for a steady head the tailbone or hips need to move and vice versa. A steady tailbone can often lead to a moving head during full powered swings. The body swings the club and the club and its momentum swings the body.....so something has to give at full power to counter balance things. If you make it your tailbone via Hip Action then the Head can be steadied easier. Its sort of like one end of the pivot or body has to be anchored, ideally the Top, the Pivot Center, the Head commonly.

You can feel this if you do a swing with your butt up against a wall or door jam. When it holds its position things dont want to work properly. The hips need to move.

When you get your Hip Action happening you can then add some Right Hip Clearing to promote Arc or Angle of Attack compliance, an inside to out Delivery Path of the Hands. Two different concepts that work so well together in better swings. Like in this example below.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125553234 1

AWESOME post OB!:notworthy

Kevin

I appreciate the post O.B. and I don't want to do anything that's not by-the-book. I understand the hips need to move. I'm not trying to restrict hip movement. As soon as I start to trace a straight base line my hips fly open without thinking about it. I guess I'm just frustrated with my body movement. I stand up and sway immediately in start up and nothing I do seems to help. I just thought bumping the hip left in my set up would keep my weight left (sort of like stack and tilt) and prevent my body sway to the right. It's a really ugly motion....