Pivotal Axis
 

In most golf techniques, the LEFT LEG is the Pivotal Axis, this is the one we are rotating around during the downstroke, and the weight is mainly on this leg during the downstroke, through the impact area, on to the finish. The Bennett/Plummer techniques even have the weight here all the way throughout the stroke.

I have heard of techniques where the Pivotal Axis is on the right leg. Are any of you familiar with any of these?

I completely agree. On every Shot.

I ONLY use my Right Leg as the Pivotal Axis. Pressure is on my Right Leg driving my Right Hip Forward which pushes my Left Hip forward and Back all the way through to at Least Both Arms Straight. The Left Leg supports the Body Weight. The Right Leg braces and then Drives the Hip Action.

I don't know who Bennett/Plummer are, but Homer Kelly and Yoda are Keenly conscious of this.

Pivotal Axis
 

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Bennett/Plummer are the Stack and Tilt men. The weight stays left throughout the stroke. Aaron Baddeley, Charlie Wi, Mike Weir, etc..

I have heard that another fairly well known instructor, uses the Right Leg as the Pivotal Axis, the weight is on the right leg through the ball. I think Zach Johnson is a right leg guy.

I looks like it can be done either way, as long as one knows how to make that way work. How about some discussion on BOTH WAYS.

Interesting. Stack and Tilt? I stopped reading the Golf Rags years ago.

If you pivot on your left Leg, then the Right Hip moves toward the Plane Line and you may not clear the Right Hip using a Straight Line Delivery Path. A little Over-The-Top occurs unless you simply slide left until Release. But there’s not much Hip Action there. And, How far Forward can the Right Hip move if it’s being pulled by the Left Hip? It Starts to Jam up near Impact. I spent years doing it that way.


Very similar to the Right Shoulder controlling the Left Shoulder, so does the Right Hip Control the Direction and Travel Distance of the Left Hip.
Baseball, Football, etc, use the Right Leg for the Hips to Pivot around and supply forward Hip Thrust.

The Right Leg serves as a backstop for the Shoulder Turn Both Ways.

Bennett
 

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Good response Mr. Daryl!!

Mr. Bennett practices, and occasionally gives some lessons near where I live. He is a very impressive ball striker himself. Some of their info is from TGM and some for MORAD... and some from their research. Tom Scherrer was the most impressive of the students I saw him working with, and they have many.

There are obviously two choices here... Left or Right Leg... there must be a Pivotal Axis for the mechanics to work.

More discussion...

Pivotal Axis, There must be, I agree. Choices? Possibly. However; we can assess the value of a particular Procedure based on Mechanical Advantage.

Who will speak for the Left Leggers? :rolleyes:

Why are we only getting two choices? My choice is a line that kinda goes out diagonally from the head down throught the spine and out the booty. based on the amount of axis tilt the point it hits the ground out behind me is further up or down plane.. . . that's what I'm trying to comply to anyhow.

I'll take Left . . . . (Mikey PM'd me and has dibs on MIDDLE).

WHAT? Just keep your head stationary. What's all this axis tilt mumbo jumbo? :)

Here is a Left Legger.

Pivotal Axis
 

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Good one...I think that is Bubba Watson, who plays left handed, so for a right hander swinging like this he would be a right leg pivotal axis player, at least for the driver. I have noticed that some of the long drive guys appear to do this. They tee the ball very high, and stay back on the right leg.

More discussion...

Hitting Up On the Driver . . . Correctly
 

In this sequence, note that Bubba tees the Ball ahead of Low Point. The result is an Upward Swing Path, less spin and, accordingly, more distance (but also less control due to the 'knuckle ball' effect). The high tee is required because he would 'Top' -- or even swing over -- the Ball if it were pegged lower.

Bubbalicious!
 

Would Bubba also have to tee it up a bit to the inside as well?

I was just joking around with that Bubba Picture. It was the Farthest one I could find from one who Drives with the Right Leg. But, it's still pretty amazing how far he can hit the ball with that pivot. I don't know if that affects the "mechanical advantage" comparison. :(

Pivotal Axis???

There is no pivotal axis!
Whenever the hips are moving, the legs are moving, the knee flex is changing dynamically, as is the ankle joint - because of the changing 'axis tilt' of the spine as the hips slide and the 'cylindrical' motion of the hips relative to itself under a stationary head (think of a disc (hips) moving around the outside of a big sphere(center of sphere - head)) moving the hip sockets in a circle.

It is not a pivotal axis unless you take it very literally - the terminology is misleading though - it could be in the sence that your ankle is a pivotal axis, or your wrist is a pivotal axis or your neck is a pivotal axis, or your elbow is a pivotal axis....

You could say that the legs act as constraint to the amount of displacement that can occur when the hips make their motion, however that does not in any way qualify it as a pivotal axis to the pivot - certainly in the way you mean't anyhows.

Mathew

You state that there is no pivotal axis. VJ Trolio writes about a downswing pivotal axis located in the region of the left leg in his book on Hogan, and he states that the pelvic rotation angular momentum is enhanced if the COG is nearer to the pivotal axis. Are you saying that his idea about a left leg pivotal axis is wrong-headed?

Secondly, during the downswing-followthrough-finish part of the swing, the pelvis rotates 135 degrees (presuming a 45 degree pelvic rotation in the backswing). I personally believe that the pelvis essentially has to pivot over the straightening (firming up) left leg, and that it is impossible to pivot over the right leg, which is becoming progressively more unweighted during this time period. Are you saying that I am wrong to think in this manner?

Here is a video link to Shawn Clement hitting off one-leg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2FnfZlRwak

I believe that he is pivoting over that left leg during the downswing/followthrough. Do you disagree?

Jeff.

What legs? There are only Feet, Knees, Hips, and a head.


BTW Daryl- Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett have been posted about in this forum. Have spoken with Yoda and even lurk among us.

Johnny Miller, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Jack Nicklaus and Vj Singh stay centered with more weight on their left leg.

ok. :golf:

Homer never talks about legs- Knees and Hips on top of feet with a staionary head at the top. Spine angle. Legs are not a component.

Bennett and Plummer are okay guys.

Are you sure? :) I could swear that Homer talks about Legs hundreds and hundreds of times. Doesn't he say:

1. Drive the Legs.
2. Start your Downswing by swinging your left leg toward the target.
3. Drive with your right leg.
4. Shift your weight to your left leg on the backswing and onto the right leg of the downswing.
5. Don't move your legs in a non-pivot swing.
6. Move your legs in a pivot swing.
7. Don't take a cart, use your legs and walk.
8. Passive legs.
9. Active legs.


These are such familiar phrases. If Homer didn't say them, then who did? The legs are body components. Why aren't they swinging components?

I don't know Bennett and Plummer. Who are they? :laughing9

This thread started going downhill after the first post. I was hoping it would get lost.

Perhaps instructors do but no mention of legs in the index or section eight or in any of the zones. Lots of talk about knees and hips- which are legs just more precise. Hips move the pivot, Knees are anchors and platforms to keep the head staionary. I don't think Homer address the issue carts in the yellow book. How can you start the downswing by swinging your left leg toward the target- kinda Monty pythonish. Your hips can use the feet and knees- but you can't 'swing the leg.' Homer uses his labguage with precision- a machine.

Bennett and Plummer coach Dean Wilson, Will MacKenzie, Mike Weir, Aaron Baddeley among others. I know you are familiar with them. Andy and Mike are nice guys- got Homer from O'Grady. O'grady got TGM from Mr. Kelley. They just build different machines, respectfully.

I forget who said this. It was in a post I read awhile back. But I agree with this guy.:)

Homer Kelley said that if the Hips move the club on the back swing- it is a Pivot control Hands procedure. I think everyone can see that.

IMHO, Hula Hula allows for the hips to move first- gear train from the bottom up- and create a space for the Hands to attack the ball to Impact. The Delivery Paths are clear for the Hands to accomplish its task.

If you do not use Hula Hula, the INDEPENDENT movement of the hips from the shoulders (not merely a hip slide) and wait to use the left hip to rotate with the right arm through Impact – you are closer to Pivot control Hands then you think.

Oh, I found out the guy who said that. It was 6bMike.

In the Yellow Book, the word "Leg" is never used. The word "Legs" is used only twice as a Heading for 7-16 and 7-17.

I'm not against Bennet and Plummer. I look at it this way: it's the Elephant story. You know, the one in which creatures are blindfolded and asked to touch a part of the elephant and then describe the elephant. If you want to see the whole picture, you have to read the Yellow Book. Otherwise, the elephant is long and round like a tube and has rough skin. :laughing9

I've heard Lynn tell the elephant story several times. I don't see how it applies to Mike and Andy. They are from TGM. Homer moves the knees and feet- they are the components not the legs.

I refer to the hips moving the pivot on the DOWNSWING. I never talk about the back stroke because it is always the Right Forearm Takeaway.

Hula Hula is one of the most important concepts in TGM. It does start the pivot it does NOT moves the hands or arms or shoulders. I'm not going to get in ANOTHER argument about what is pivot control and what isn't. I agree with Yoda and Homer that the hands carry the club to the end or top and the pivot initiates the down stroke.

The only reason I replied to this thread is because legs are not a TGM component- it’s the releation of the hip and knees to the spine angle. Not swing the leg left to start the DS- how do you do that? That’s is unTGM as it gets.