Relationships . . . #3 Angle, Plane Angle, & Clubface Motion
 

Is there a relationship here?

Talk to me about it . . .

Interacting Components
 

We can start here:

With Zero #3 Accumulator, there is a Left Shoulder Plane Angle. And all three Hinge Actions (Clubface Motion through Impact) produce an identical amount of Clubhead travel (to the end of the Follow-Through / Both Arms Straight position).

Good place to start . . . Zero . . . and move up from there.

Question: With Zero #3 Accumulator, the travel is all the same for each Hinge Action. So with increasing amounts of #3 Angle are is the rate of closing and lay back slower for a given amount of Hand Motion since the travel necessarily increases?

Breaker 1-9.

If I understand the question:
No- it needs to catch up and maintain its rpm's - the MPH increases to maintain its rpm's. Pace increases to maintain Rhythm.

This is the heart of endless belt

Ah very nice . . . you been gone but you are back atop the bicycle seat . . .

Good one . . .

Soooooooo . . . can we make a connection that the flatter planes require more handspeed to maintain the RPM's?

How do we work this in . . .

6-N-0

The earlier in the Downstroke the Release occurs, the larger, longer and slower the Release Arc will be for both Clubhead and Hands. Other things being equal, this will require higher Hand Speed to produce yardages equivalent to that of the short quick arc of Maximum Delay. This involves Angular Speed which is measured by the number of degrees of an Arc through which the motion moves per second. From Release to Impact is just so many degrees of travel – at the Left Shoulder and/or at the Left Wrist. Doubling the travel time (for instance) halves the travel rate. Also see 2-P and 7-23.

The smaller the Release Arc (Endless Belt Pulley - constant Hand Speed) the faster the Right Elbow must straighten and the faster there will be "Extension" (Lever Assemblies 2-P) and "Overtaking" (6-F #3 Accumulator) until the Right Arm becomes straight. All without affecting The Travel Rate of the Endless Belt.

7-18

Then understanding and executing the Left Wrist Action per 2-N-1, synchronizes the entire procedure. Trigger Delay alters little geometrical but magnifies the physics. The Paddlewheel Action of the straightening Right Elbow (10-10-C) initiates and sustains the #3 Accumulator Hand Motion (4-D-0) unit the Both-Arms-Straight and Zero Accumulator #3 position of Full Extension – but, of course, under the guidance of the Flat, Vertical Left Wrist Hinge Action (2-G). Accumulator #3 Action is not Lever Assembly Extension. See 2-P. With the Endless Belt Effect, The Belt (Hands) and the Clubhead have the RPM but the Surface factor sets in and gives the Clubhead greater MPH – in reverse proportion to the size of the Pulley (the smaller, the faster). That is, raised Hand Position – reducing the Accumulator #3 Travel –plus Trigger Delay. Conversely – a larger Pulley (lowered Hands) requires a higher Handspeed and an earlier Trigger. See 6-B-3-A, 6-F and 6-N-0.

Variations in Trigger Delay are possible ONLY beacuse the Cocked Left Wrist allows the Right Elbow to straighten faster than the Left Arm would otherwise allow (6-B-1) and the greater the Delay the more rapid the Paddlewheel Action and the more Swivel-like it becomes without increasing the actual Endless Belt speed of the Left Hand.

Can you relate this stuff to Plane Angle?

10-6-A ELBOW Where the Right Elbow touches the waist is the reference point used for this Plane Angle. It is the “flattest” normal Plane that will still allow the Right Forearm to be On Plane during Impact. This should produce a very flat Angle of Attack (2-B) with reduced Backspin and should be avoided for Short Shots unless it is also part of your Full Stroke Pattern. The Elbow Plane allows maximum #3 Accumulator requiring earlier Release per 6-N-0. This procedure is executed by the Right Forearm per 7-3 and 10-6-B and Elbow Location per 6-B-3-0-1.

10-6-C SQUARED SHOULDER The reference point for this Plane Angle is the point occupied by the Right Shoulder (or Left – for putting) at the Address. With this steep Plane, Angled Hinge Action becomes almost Vertical Hinge Action (2-D). Accumulator #3 can be Zeroed out.

This is the stuff left on chalkboards in the hallways over night at MIT or some Ivy league school waiting for good will hunting. Lynn help!

Mr. Bucket,

Is this thread leading to a discussion of Low/High Left Hand #3 accumulator and changing pulley sizes? I can't believe that you quoted the 7Th Edition. Sacrilege!!!!!!! :pray:

Looks that way to me from what he's quoted....

Now throw in some food for thought.....

How does this 'picture' change if you were to consider only a zero shift motion?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think that it changes the Picture as far as mechanical application.

Consider a Turned Shoulder Plane and Zero Shift.

Someone with High Hand Speed, or Rotation Speed may use a Low #3 Accumulator and Release Earlier or those blessed with Extra Speed can capitalize on that ability with a Snap Release (if they dare to use 10-18-B).

Those with Slower Hand Speed, or Turtle like Rotational Speed should use a High #3 Accumulator with Snap Release for Highest Clubhead Speed (LPGA and Daryl) or Lower #3 Accumulator with Full or Random Sweep.

I think it is interesting to note that the players that have tons of trigger delay swing seem to swing on the Elbow Plane to me? I could be wrong in this observation. But Sergio Hogan CHII and Boo seem to be Elbow Planers?

Anybody got thoughts on that?

Huge trigger delay on the TSP, would be really steep, don't you think?

They say Boo gets too steep, but I don't believe 'em.

Witcha . . . but how do we reconcile the statements below?

10-6-A ELBOW Where the Right Elbow touches the waist is the reference point used for this Plane Angle. It is the “flattest” normal Plane that will still allow the Right Forearm to be On Plane during Impact. This should produce a very flat Angle of Attack (2-B) with reduced Backspin and should be avoided for Short Shots unless it is also part of your Full Stroke Pattern. The Elbow Plane allows maximum #3 Accumulator requiring earlier Release per 6-N-0. This procedure is executed by the Right Forearm per 7-3 and 10-6-B and Elbow Location per 6-B-3-0-1.

Does it just LOOK LIKE major delay because of the big angle?

With the same equipment? Do you assume that with any of these, impact fix is the ideal, with a 10-2-B Grip and proper wrist conditions?

I would say yes. I think the TSP operates on a larger pulley than the elbow. JMO. It has to, to accomodate the afforementioned steepness. Plus a buuunnnch of dudes bomb it swinging more left on the TSP.

Where are you defining major delay? Hands just outside right leg, in front of right leg, or max delay of passing line of sight to ball?

On Elbow plane with a large #3 if release begins with hands just outside of right leg, when the hands are in front of the right leg the clubshaft will be reaching parallel to ground, or "laying on the line". Still LOOKS like a lot of delay, but the release has in fact begun.

Good question . . . I'm not sure . . . the Elbow Plane . . .is the Elbow Plane a "moving target" based on the amount of #3 Angle "constructed" into the Machine via the amount it is in the cup or not in the cup of the Left Hand?

OR . ..

Does the Elbow Plane MANDATE a larger amount of #3 Accumultor Angle?

Stuff from 2-K . .

the Clubhead goes into an Angular Motion and its Surface Speed becomes proportional to: 1). its Radius, 2). Belt Speed and 3). Pulley diameter. Increasing the diameter and/or the Belt Speed increases Clubhead MPH and vice versa. The Circle Delivery Path is just one big Pulley - no Belt, no Linear Motion and therefore constant Hand Speed and Clubhead Speed (RPM) but different MPH due to different Surface Speeds. It must all comply with 7-23 - which is the Geometry of the Endless Belt Action

Stuff from 6-E-2 . . .

And the shorter Clubs take less time to reach the In-Line condition from a given Release Point than do the longer Club, due to the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum (6-C-2-B).

the difference in travel distance per degree of Angular Motion because Impact always occurs during the "Pulley" portion of the Endless Belt travel (sketch 2-K #6) regardless of the direction of its Straight Line travel between pulleys (or of the Thrust during the Circle Path per 7-23) because both of those lines represent the True Delivery Paths and move - physically - directly at the point on the Ball through which the Angle of Approach passes even with Aiming Point procedures because The Machine delivers the #3 Pressure Point to Impact Fix Hand Location AT IMPACT with all Delivery Paths, Delivery Lines, Pulley Sizes, etc. because its structure is designed to do just that, hence the importance of a sturdy structure around the Endless Belt machinery. That is what makes the Aiming Point procedure possible at all

So the Geometry of the Belt is based on

1. Radius
2. Belt Speed
3. Pulley Diameter

So how do we reconcile this Geometry assuming a Snap Release on the Elbow Plane vs. the Turned Shoulder Plane?







Was Jack Snap or Sweep? Does Snap Look Like Sweep on a Steep Plane?

A. W. O. L.
 

This is a great thread, Bucket. Thanks!

I contributed early, but have been unable to do so since. The weekend comes!

Meanwhile, my personal appreciation to all contributors.

:salut:

Word . . . Give me some examples and I'll try to find some sequences to post . .. HOlla back.

I don't clearly understand the question. But I was saying that a Golfer can use High or Low #3 Accumulator Angle on a Turned Shoulder Plane, with Zero Shift.

I think that the Endless Belt Effect concept illustrates that The Clubhead will travel at the same RPM of the Hands but have different surface speeds. I believe that each Size Golfer has his one size pulley. He may compensate Hand Speed with the #3 Accumulator Angle. I think thats all that the concept and HK are saying. And, without a Straight Line Portion, then no endless belt effect, then the endless belt effect has no application to one large pulley for Circle Path Delivery.

I don't think the Endless Belt Effect Concept supports attempting to change the Pulley Size.

It's just my opinnion which is base on my level of understanding of the material.

Float loading really tends toward snap if done properly (proper aiming point).

Are we seeing Snap from Jack or Sweep? Or is it dependent upon Plane Angle?

Paging Machinus Magnus!!!!

We need you to roll up your sleeves this weekend and get a little 7-3 Elbow grease!

Snap load, sweep release.

Angel Cabrera
Tony Lema
Calc
A bunch of long drive dudes, can't remember their names, Zuback, etc.

Yo . . . Mr. 6,000 . . . the masses (or at least one of 'em) is waiting for your weigh in on this topic?

Holla!